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Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif



Quote: SmokeyTA "...
If a police office made the decision that the rules of engagement didnt allow him to use any force to somebody who was posing a clear and immediate threat to life then that Police Officer made a mistake, they made an error and the use of the report and debate around what happened would be on that Police Officer's clear need for additional training, there doesnt need to be a change in law or tactics, simply making sure that officers are aware of them, something really which should be the very bare minimum for someone to be enforcing the law.

It seems odd that the police shot and killed a man causing the riots, then said they didnt think they could use lethal force.'"


As you don't cope well with long posts, and are also visibly becoming more confused and agitated by the minute, I'll keep it short.

1. The report was not, at all, about any individual officer's "need for additional training", and your suggestion that no looters got shot because the police were unaware they could shoot them is as barking as anything you've come up with yet.

2. Hang on, the level of barking has gone up a couple of notches. The police did not cause the riots, and they said no such thing.

As you are just making up rubbish, there is no point in responding to any more of your drivel.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "As you don't cope well with long posts, and are also visibly becoming more confused and agitated by the minute, I'll keep it short.

1. The report was not, at all, about any individual officer's "need for additional training", and your suggestion that no looters got shot because the police were unaware they could shoot them is as barking as anything you've come up with yet.'"
As you seem to struggle with basic English, and seemingly jump in with what I assume you think are witty attempts at patronising ill try and keep it simple for you I haven’t suggested that the police were unaware they could use lethal force, its kind of why I mentioned the fact they had used lethal force and how odd that contradiction would be. I simply suggested that that if an individual police officer didn’t know they could use lethal force it was because they were mistaken, not because we need new rules of engagement, new laws, or new weapons. Simply properly trained police officers.
Though considering the what the police have actually said
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "After a review of police tactics by HM Chief Inspector of Constabulary Sir Denis O'Connor controversially suggested officers could shoot arsonists if they posed a threat to life, Mr Hogan-Howe said he did not believe arming riot police was an option.

"I don't see foreseeably at the moment that is an option," he told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.'"
Its more likely that the police didn’t use force not because they weren’t aware they were allowed, not because they were scared to, but far more likely that they just didn’t think they were valid tactics in that specific situation.

Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "2. Hang on, the level of barking has gone up a couple of notches. The police did not cause the riots, and they said no such thing.'"

As you are just making up rubbish, there is no point in responding to any more of your drivel.'"
]The shooting of Mark Duggan was he spark which caused the riots, that’s pretty much universally accepted. If you want to believe that the police responsible for killing man aren’t responsible for the consequences of that, well then that is up to you.

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Quote: Starbug "I'd love to hear what what some posters would suggest is reasonable force a homeowner could use to stop someone setting fire to their home , containing their family ?'"


Only one taker to this one

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Quote: SmokeyTA "The shooting of Mark Duggan was he spark which caused the riots, that’s pretty much universally accepted. If you want to believe that the police responsible for killing man aren’t responsible for the consequences of that, well then that is up to you.'"


There's a bit of a confused logic there though isn't there ?

You believe that the consequences of the police shooting a man are civil riot and yet would support the police shooting more people who are rioting, presumably leading to more people rioting because of those shootings ?

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Quote: Starbug "Only one taker to this one'"


The nutter who answered got part of the reply correct, "Any force that is reasonable under the given circumstances" is probably the correct answer which could include lethal force but not necessarily - ultimately it would depend on a judges opinion on whether or not you believed your life to be in imminent danger as to whether you could be justified in killing someone and its a pure guess on my part but I'd imagine that any means of escape would be taken into account in that judgement.

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Quote: Big Graeme "Manchester police didn't go to London.'"

rl100 officers from GMP dispatched to London on 9th August.rl

Fairly common knowledge round here that GMP sent officers to London, only 100 but riot and disorder specialists apparently. Iirc they travelled down but were recalled once the situation in Manchester became clear. They spent much of their valuable time in a minibus when their skills were sorely needed.

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Quote: McLaren_Field "The nutter who answered got part of the reply correct, "Any force that is reasonable under the given circumstances" is probably the correct answer which could include lethal force but not necessarily - ultimately it would depend on a judges opinion on whether or not you believed your life to be in imminent danger as to whether you could be justified in killing someone and its a pure guess on my part but I'd imagine that any means of escape would be taken into account in that judgement.'"


Why am I a 'nutter'?!

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Quote: Cronus "rl100 officers from GMP dispatched to London on 9th August.rl

Fairly common knowledge round here that GMP sent officers to London, only 100 but riot and disorder specialists apparently. Iirc they travelled down but were recalled once the situation in Manchester became clear. They spent much of their valuable time in a minibus when their skills were sorely needed.'"


Ah, I thought because they weren't deployed they didn't travel. In the end both forces did what they should have done on the first night and throw bodies at the problem, they didn't need to riot specialist to deal with the amateur rioters.

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Quote: Big Graeme "Ah, I thought because they weren't deployed they didn't travel. In the end both forces did what they should have done on the first night and throw bodies at the problem, they didn't need to riot specialist to deal with the amateur rioters.'"


Diasgree with you there. I would say having riot specialists who understand riots and controlling them would make it easier to bring said riot under control, instead of just using ordinary plod.

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Quote: Big Graeme "Ah, I thought because they weren't deployed they didn't travel. In the end both forces did what they should have done on the first night and throw bodies at the problem, they didn't need to riot specialist to deal with the amateur rioters.'"


Would you like to expain the difference between amateur and other type of rioters?

Have some gone to Uni to learn how to riot properly, was it amateur rioters that were committing arson and potential murder ?

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Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif



Quote: SmokeyTA "As you seem to struggle with basic English, '"

That would be you - as you reply to this will, I predict, perfectly illustrate.

Quote: SmokeyTA "and seemingly jump in with what I assume you think are witty attempts at patronising... '"

Responses to your drivel don't have to be boring. I can entertain, as well as demolishing you ever decreasing circular non-points. If you don’t like it, then try sensible posts.

Quote: SmokeyTA " I haven’t suggested that the police were unaware they could use lethal force, '"

You see, it’s just this goldfish-like retention of your own rambling that makes you seem stupid. Your words were
So, you report that the police “said… they didn’t think they could use lethal force”.

So, you SPECIFICALLY suggested that the police were unaware they could use lethal force. And now you have been caught out.

Quote: SmokeyTA " I simply suggested that that if an individual police officer didn’t know they could use lethal force it was because they were mistaken…'"

Having already demolished the wider point, I don’t need to do the same to this more restricted “individual police officer” point. However, I’d be interested to know what the difference in this individual’s case actually is, between “being unaware he could use lethal force” (which you say you haven’t suggested) and “didn’t know he could use lethal force”, which were, er, again YOUR words. Oops.

Quote: SmokeyTA " The shooting of Mark Duggan was he spark which caused the riots, that’s pretty much universally accepted. If you want to believe that the police responsible for killing man aren’t responsible for the consequences of that, well then that is up to you.'"


I consider the view that holding the police “responsible” for the riots, and/or claiming that the riots were a “consequence” of that incident, is arrant nonsense. I would bet a lot of money that 99% of the rioters couldn’t even tell you the deceased’s name, and that incident will have played not the slightest part whatsoever in the riots in other cities.

Obviously the initial spark of rioting in Tottenham followed the shooting, but even there I have seen no suggestion that anyone rioted [ibecause of that incident[/i or as some sort of protest at the death of that individual. Of course, there is a massive anti-police feeling in much of UK subculture, and I equally have no doubt that the opportunity to use this as an excuse to have a crack at the police was a major factor.

Do you understand the distinction? Anti-police rioting, of people claiming to be oppressed by the police, as opposed to people who had no issues with the police, but suddenly decided to go on the rampage just because this individual was shot?

The LSE/Guardian analysis of explanations from a large number of convicted rioters themselves. Of those interviewed85% cited anger at policing practices as a key factor
time and again the interviewees, regardless of where they lived, said they felt like they had been taking part in anti-police riots.

Many interviewees described the violence as a chance to get back at the police
"When we came across a police car it felt like we hit the jackpot," one rioter said. "We thought we'd just kind of violate just like they violate us."

85% said policing was an "important" or "very important" factor in why the riots happened.
It was second only to poverty, which saw 86% of rioters class it as one of the main causes. Eighty percent claimed that government policy was an "important" or "very important" factor, while 79% said the same of unemployment.

The interviewees repeatedly expressed frustrations about their daily interactions with the police, saying that they felt hassled, bullied and complaining that they were not treated as equals.
The focus of much resentment was police use of stop and search which was felt to be unfairly targeted and often undertaken in an aggressive and discourteous manner.
Seventy per cent of the rioters said they had been stopped and searched in the last year.
And time and again interviewees described the violence as a chance to get back at the police.
"It was war and for the first time we was in control, like we had the police scared, like there was no more us being scared of the police," one rioter said.
Half of those interviewed were black, but they did not consider the unrest to be "race riots".
Rioters identified a range of political grievances, but at the heart of their complaints was a pervasive sense of injustice.
For some this was economic - the lack of money, jobs or opportunity. For others it was more broadly social - how they felt they were treated compared with others.
Many mentioned the increase in student tuition fees and the scrapping of the Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA).'"


Do you know how many said the shooting of that individual caused them to riot?
Try “none”.

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Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "That would be you - as you reply to this will, I predict, perfectly illustrate.

Responses to your drivel don't have to be boring. I can entertain, as well as demolishing you ever decreasing circular non-points. If you don’t like it, then try sensible posts.

You see, it’s just this goldfish-like retention of your own rambling that makes you seem stupid. Your words werebecause of that incident[/i or as some sort of protest at the death of that individual. Of course, there is a massive anti-police feeling in much of UK subculture, and I equally have no doubt that the opportunity to use this as an excuse to have a crack at the police was a major factor.

Do you understand the distinction? Anti-police rioting, of people claiming to be oppressed by the police, as opposed to people who had no issues with the police, but suddenly decided to go on the rampage just because this individual was shot?

The LSE/Guardian analysis of explanations from a large number of convicted rioters themselves. Of those interviewed


Wow talk about splitting hairs.

But for the shooting the riots would not have happened? Do you agree.

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Quote: World of Redboy "Diasgree with you there. I would say having riot specialists who understand riots and controlling them would make it easier to bring said riot under control, instead of just using ordinary plod.'"



If they were riots in the traditional sense you'd have a point, these were just petty criminals doing a bit of robbing, using the "rioting" as an excuse.

There was no particular target, no urge to confront police, in fact they actively avoided confrontation.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Big Graeme "If they were riots in the traditional sense you'd have a point, these were just petty criminals doing a bit of robbing, using the "rioting" as an excuse.

There was no particular target, no urge to confront police, in fact they actively avoided confrontation.'"


So these were ' retail rioters ' then? , well maybe these amateur retail rioters would have had second thoughts if they thought theyd get a baton round in the nuts for their trouble rather than just having the bobbies watching them commit crimes, destroy livelyhoods , burn peoples homes and potentially burn people to death ?

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Quote: Starbug "So these were ' retail rioters ' then? '"


If that is what you want to call them, fine.

Quote: Starbug "well maybe these amateur retail rioters would have had second thoughts if they thought theyd get a baton round in the nuts for their trouble rather than just having the bobbies watching them commit crimes, destroy livelyhoods , burn peoples homes and potentially burn people to death ?'"


Or maybe putting people on the ground would (and did) do the job without resorting to shooting people.

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NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
800
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557
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2209
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2674
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2104
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2176
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M +12,434 ↑280,15514,103
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RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 2nd Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
04:30
Penrith
v
Cronulla
06:30
Canberra
v
NZ Warriors
 Thu 6th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
09:00
Sydney
v
Brisbane
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Hull FC
v
Leigh
 Fri 7th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
07:00
Wests
v
Newcastle
09:00
Dolphins
v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Castleford
v
Salford
20:00
St.Helens
v
Hull KR
 Sat 8th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
06:30
St.George
v
Canterbury
08:35
Manly
v
NQL Cowboys
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
17:30
Catalans
v
Leeds
 Sun 9th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
05:05
Melbourne
v
Parramatta
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
17:30
Warrington
v
Wakefield
17:30
Wigan
v
Huddersfield
 Thu 13th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R2
09:00
Newcastle
v
Dolphins
 Fri 14th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R2
07:00
NZ Warriors
v
Manly
09:00
Penrith
v
Sydney
 Sat 15th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R2
04:00
St.George
v
Souths
06:30
NQL Cowboys
v
Cronulla
08:35
Canberra
v
Brisbane
 Sun 16th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R2
05:05
Parramatta
v
Wests
07:15
Canterbury
v
Gold Coast
 Thu 20th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R4
20:00
Salford
v
Huddersfield
 Fri 21st Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R4
20:00
St.Helens
v
Warrington
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull FC
 Sat 22nd Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R4
15:00
Castleford
v
Catalans
17:30
Leeds
v
Wigan
 Sun 23rd Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R4
15:00
Hull KR
v
Leigh
 Thu 27th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R5
20:00
Castleford
v
Hull FC
 Fri 28th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R5
20:00
Leigh
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Wakefield
20:00
Warrington
v
Leeds
 Sat 29th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R5
14:30
Wigan
v
Salford
17:30
Catalans
v
St.Helens
 Sun 30th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R5
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull KR
 Thu 10th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R6
20:00
Salford
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Leeds
 Fri 11th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R6
20:00
Hull KR
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Wigan
20:00
St.Helens
v
Wakefield
 Sat 12th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R6
17:30
Warrington
v
Hull FC
20:00
Castleford
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Leigh
 Sun 13th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R6
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Catalans
 Thu 17th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R7
20:00
Wakefield
v
Castleford
 Fri 18th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R7
20:00
Hull FC
v
Hull KR
20:00
Wigan
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Huddersfield
 Sat 19th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R7
20:00
Leigh
v
Warrington
20:00
Catalans
v
Salford
 Thu 24th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Warrington
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull KR
 Fri 25th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Salford
v
Leigh
 Sat 26th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Castleford
17:30
Catalans
v
Wakefield
 Sun 27th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
15:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 3rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Leigh
v
Catalans
17:15
Hull KR
v
Salford
19:30
St.Helens
v
Leeds
 Sun 4th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
13:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull FC
15:15
Wigan
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Wakefield
 Thu 15th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
20:00
St.Helens
v
Catalans
 Fri 16th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
 Sun 25th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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NEWS ITEMS
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2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
800
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
557
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1289
England's Women Demolish The W..
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