So it's more realistic and the passing, momentum, tackling, ball physics and AI are all better than FIFA? Really? Are you sure?

All the demo reviews I've read have highlighted the keepers issue, so that's an easy fix. But they also criticised the dribbling, the controls for taking someone on in a one on one, the off the ball running controls, the animation and the ease with which ping pong passes can be made. Looking at it on youtube the thing that gets me about pro evo is the animation. It's just not of the quality of FIFA.

I might give it a go on the PC in a bit, you can't get it on the Xbox yet as they rejected it.

It depends how you want to define those things, in many ways, yes it is more realistic than Fifa. I don't think there's much in the passing (Fifa's lobbed through balls are better, but PES' long ball (the one you usually use square for) is far superior, as you can switch play with much more consistency than Fifa.)

The dribbling, so far anyway, has been better than Fifa's. Fifa's dribbling is one of its weakest aspects IMO, I mean, has anybody ever played with Messi on the game and tried to beat a defender 1v1? It doesn't matter what the defender's rating, the chances of you beating defenders 1v1 in Fifa aren't great, not when you consider Messi's stats on those attributes. With PES, I've found the dribbling to be decent, I've had players cock up a dribble and over run the ball, but, to be honest, I've only tried to dribble with good dribblers. So when I'm dribbling the ball with a player like Nani or Robinho, I expect to be able to regularly beat players 1v1, which I have done on PES.

I can't understand what you mean about momentum? Are you talking about the momentum physic on Fifa with regards to shooting? i.e. if you get enough momentum (sprints without being challenged) the chances of the shot going in are higher? Or are you talking about momentum as a team, i.e. if you score a goal, your team gets momentum behind them and start playing better? If it's the latter, I've never really seen this in Fifa or PES to be honest.

Tackling seems better in PES, if a player is tripped, he goes down, if he is tapped, he will stay up. Fifa's tackling is broken IMO. The amount of times I've tackled players on Fifa, whether it be slide or standing, and not come out with the ball, I've lost count. Again, tackling is one of Fifa's weakest aspects, especially when you throw in the ridiculously easy CPU-assist, which is another thing I feel has been necessarily toned down in PES, as in Fifa, it's just ridiculously easy to use, yet is very effective.

As for AI, well, my teammate's AI seems better. I've not played through every level of PES to make a judgment on the opposition's AI, but it doesn't strike me as poor nor outstanding. When you play Fifa, your teammate's AI is generally embarrassing, the only good thing they do is close down for you when you hold the button. The opposition on AI is a mixed bag, they are capable of God mode defensively, yet offer very little in terms of attacking play.

I'll play Fifa 12 before making a final decision, but this PES demo is definitely stronger than Fifa 11.

Wow. Big call.

I hope it lives up to the promise then, having genuine competition or even surpassing FIFA would ensure they can't rest on their laurels at EA.

Picked up Deus Ex: HR plus 800 MS Points for £29.99 at Argos.

Seems like a cracking deal, will give the game a spin later hopefully.

I agree with that, I've really enjoyed the demo. Good to see someone on here that likes the games. Most people don't usually see past the Pro Evo name though without slagging it off and being a FIFA fanboy but the demo is very promising, can't wait for the full game.

There is commentary and the ITV champions league team have been doing it the past couple of years but they took the commentary out of the demo as it took too much size up on the demo!

The criticism of Pro Evo has been fair. It has not been in the same league as FIFA on this current generation of consoles. Since FIFA 09 it has been miles behind. If it's caught up this time it must be massively different from 11, which was terrible.

Sam Tomkins' fault, surely.

Yup. I think he was the smoke monster in Lost too.

Bought that Deus Ex tonight. £27 (staff discount) for the game and a £5 pre-order thingy. So now I'll get a fiver off Fifa 11 (I will obviously buy it, but may also buy PES) and Deus Ex at a decent price. If I don't like it, I'll trade it back in.

Seems a pity that so many new games are coming out, yet all will fall beneath FM12.

Your opinion, not everyone elses. I've already admitted FIFA has been the better of the 2 games this generation of consoles but its nowhere as bad as you always make out. Just seems a pattern with games you have a pop at you've hardly or never played like Pro Evo and all PS3 exclusives bar the Uncharted games. End of the day Pro Evo 12 could be the best footy game ever and FIFA 12 be the worst but FIFA will always outsell it by a mile cos its called FIFA!

No way dude. I say what I see. You will notice i've not criticised pro evo 12 at all, in fact I'm intrigued by the suggestion that it's much improved this time. I have no real loyalty to fifa, it's just been the best game recently. I used to be a pro evo fan in the ps2 days.

I take back what I said about Fifa's lobbed through ball being better than PES', if done correctly, the PES lobbed ball is beautiful. I'm really enjoying this game now, it's absolutely sublime to play. It's just not like Fifa, it lacks the stupid repetition and the defending on Fifa is far too easy to master. This game is both challenging and enjoyable, Saddened, if you can't appreciate this game, you definitely look for other things from a football game than I, as it's brill.

Your message from a couple of days ago:

"Merseyside Blue versus London at the Rose Bowl in the Master League after signing Warne Roomey. It just doesn't get any better than that.

(Or have they sorted the licenses now?)"

Judging by that comment you've not actually attempted to play Pro Evo 11 or its just a cheap way to score points or you'd already know the answer by playing it. I've not said you've criticised Pro Evo 12, its just that 2 people have come on here stating its a decent demo so far and I get the impression you don't want to believe your beloved FIFA has got competition this year

Couldn't get it to work on the PC so I've only managed 10 minutes on my cousins PS3. I can see why you two like it. First impressions are pretty good. It looks very different to FIFA, with a few nice touches like the players moving individually at kick off, some stretching, some clapping, some high stepping. Then the gameplay feels very quick. After playing FIFA a lot recently it felt noticably quicker. I can also see what you mean about the feel of the ball. Passing and particularly long passing and through balls feel nice and weighty and there is a nice degree of control. I also think the positioning of the players is less structured and rigid than it is in FIFA. The repitition in FIFA comes from playing the same passes as you know where players will be without even checking the radar.

Having said that, the passing is too easy. You can zig-zag passes with instant control. The passing feels like FIFA 09, instant ping pong passing where you can move 75 metres down the field without doing anything remotely skillful. I also don't like the off the ball controls at all, again, feeling like FIFA five or six years ago. Some of the animation is also lacking, most noticably when you are pinballing it about. You can pass the ball perfectly no matter how the player is positioned or how his momentum is going and it often doesn't even animate the pass, it just disappears off your foot to the next player who always automatically controls it perfectly.

10 minutes isn't enough, but it is sufficiently better than Pro Evo 11 for me to be intrigued and I must admit I did want to carry on. I will be downloading the demo when Microsoft approves it, that way I can use a proper controller as well