Who ?

You really couldn't make this up. They accuse Corbyn of being out of touch with Labour's traditional working class base then come up with this bull crap as their main policy?! They must really hate democracy. www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... our-leader

You really couldn't make this up. They accuse Corbyn of being out of touch with Labour's traditional working class base then come up with this bull crap as their main policy?! They must really hate democracy. www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... our-leader

Is there any data people who associate themselves with a party and how they voted in the EU referendum?

Eg Those that associate with Labour: 55% leave 45% stay?

I would imagine a ukip support share would be high 90% leave.

But is there any breakdown facts?

In terms of "associate with a party" I haven't seen any data on that yet, at least not with the kind of categorisation of association used above. That will come but it's a more extensive data gathering exercise.

In terms of how people voted in last year's general it was a 63 / 37 split in favour of remain for Labour voters.

For snap immediately before and immediately after voting there's only really one readily available source and it's the disgraced (I assume) former Tory party deputy chairman, rl£ord Ashcroftrl. But it's generally useful and interesting.

4% of UKIP voters opted to stay.

I'm going to say that agin.

4% of UKIP voters opted to stay.

I even typed it again, I couldn't copy and paste. I had to feel that flow through my fingers.

(PDF link at the bottom. I'll spare you all another rant on appropriate formats for raw data exchange)

This article sums things up: www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 36711.html

This article sums things up: www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 36711.html

https://medium.com/@matatatatat/the-ter ... .lf5v3srip

https://medium.com/@matatatatat/the-ter ... .lf5v3srip

Quote: Dally "This article sums things up: Read that in the pub before the derby match on Thursday. It's a brilliant - and brilliantly funny - article. Here's another from the Independent. Will come as no surprise, but still staggering to see the extent of the bias in black and white. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40681.html The research director at the London School of Economics who led the project suggests this undermines democracy in the UK. It's hard to disagree. The extent of the misrepresentation really raises the suggestion that Corbyn is in actual fact perceived to be a real threat.

Quote: Dally "This article sums things up: Read that in the pub before the derby match on Thursday. It's a brilliant - and brilliantly funny - article. Here's another from the Independent. Will come as no surprise, but still staggering to see the extent of the bias in black and white. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40681.html The research director at the London School of Economics who led the project suggests this undermines democracy in the UK. It's hard to disagree. The extent of the misrepresentation really raises the suggestion that Corbyn is in actual fact perceived to be a real threat.

This support of Corbyn does show though that there is a real cry from the people for a left wing alternative.

You have all the daft parties of the far right, then UKIP a little further in, followed by the Tories and then marginally to the right New Labour.
The Lib Dems consigned themselves to the dustbin aligning themselves with the Tories so what choices do the people have? They can vote Green, knowing full well that a high percentage of a mainly right wing country (England) see them as a fruitcakes (i vote for them, says everything) or they can try to force one of the establishment parties over to the left, which is what they are trying to do with a Corbyn lead Labour. I feel for them i really do.

Which is why we need Proportional Representation. It would ensure everyone's vote counted and the left could vote for the Greens (or whoever) and the right could vote for UKIP without feeling like its a wasted vote. I'm certain a PR system would see a much higher vote for the non-mainstream parties. Which would give a more accurate account of people's views across the country.

It would also give a platform for the far right as it does in France. Are you happy for that to happen? I'm not sure I am.

I find France very strange in that regard. I know several educated French people and am surprised at their almost open disgust towards those of arab or African origin in their country. It seems very targeted at those in France rather than the stereotyped dislike of non-whites everywhere.

Since a lot of people on my FB feed are sharing "They called Attlee unelectable too" memes atm, here's the actual polling data. www.markpack.org.uk/files/2016/0 ... dsheet.xls There is one single, solitary occasion where the predicted margin of victory for Attlee drops below 6%. Glad people are finding solace in it though, even if it is complete bllocks and always was.

Since a lot of people on my FB feed are sharing "They called Attlee unelectable too" memes atm, here's the actual polling data. www.markpack.org.uk/files/2016/0 ... dsheet.xls There is one single, solitary occasion where the predicted margin of victory for Attlee drops below 6%. Glad people are finding solace in it though, even if it is complete bllocks and always was.

Not particularly, as I said people who vote UKIP would have their vote "count" too (I class UKIP as far right). But I think it's preferable to this sort of slow burn effect of disenchantment where people feel their views aren't encapsulated by the 2 main parties and yet feel their only real choices when it comes to an election is to either vote for one of those parties, vote for another party as a protest but knowing it won't really be counted, or, as many people do, not vote at all.

For example, the Labour Party is moving too far to the Right for my liking. Consequently I can either keep voting Labour, vote for the Green Party but know it's entirely wasted, or not vote.

I'll probably keep voting Labour, but it just leaves me feeling p|ssed off and not at all represented.

PR enables other party involvement, which as you rightly point out isn't always good, but I think if those views are held by people in this country then we should acknowledge those views and challenge them rather than let them fester under the surface. The BNP grew steadily for years out of spotlight, one Question Time performance and they were finished.

That's normal isn't it? I recall arguing with friends from SE London and the Black Country respectively when I was but a student many years ago about their overtly racist tendencies. Their answer was that "you don't live among "them"". So I would guess that the French position is typical.