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FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Is our Commie government losing the plot? |
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2244_1299706258.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg |
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| Quote: Mintball "Oh, she was very good at implementing her policies.
So was Adolf.'"
True. But a poll shows high support for and adoration of Adolf. It makes no difference that it was a poll of members of the American Nazi Party. It's a poll. All polls were created equal.
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International Chairman | 47951 | No Team Selected |
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Him "True. But a poll shows high support for and adoration of Adolf. It makes no difference that it was a poll of members of the American Nazi Party. It's a poll. All polls were created equal.'"
Ah, but some polls are more equal than others.
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1136_1263489772.jpg Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg |
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| Ajw71 is making a classic error of logic.
I have already pointed out that the majority of voters in General Elections (which is a large sample across all sections of society, all on the same day) repeatedly voted against Margaret Thatcher.
Even when she was "popular" she was unpopular with the majority.
There are probably polls out there about who was the worst Prime Minister ... and I'd put money on the witch being top of that one.
I am not going to look for such a poll because it would probably have as many failings as the ones that Ajw71 has mentioned.... and prove nothing.
I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.
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1136_1263489772.jpg Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "I lived through the three day week when electricity was rationed due to the miners strike of 1972, I also lived through the Callaghan/Healey debacle when rubbish didn't get emptied, bodies didn't get buried and top rate tax was 83% and basic rate was 33% and the IMF were required to Healey out of the crap.'"
So did I.
I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: El Barbudo "So did I...'"
Brings back memories of the paraffin lamps.
Quote: El Barbudo "I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.'"
Old Rupert helped her with the union bit. I think it's a fair bet that it is not a coincidence that the media company that banned independent trades unions and insisted on an in-house staff association is also the one where sustained and widespread culture of criminal behaviour when it came to the garnering of 'news'.
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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[url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0]
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| Quote: El Barbudo "
I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.'"
She never lost an election
She was sacked by her own staff before she ever did that - and then the Labour Party contrived to get them re-elected for yet another term in 92, a condemnation of the flavour of politicians available in '92.
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: El Barbudo "So did I.
I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.'"
Whole towns - I think that is going a bit far!! Are you suggesting Labour MPs didn't also walk in directorships or was it just the Tory's?
Thatcher wasn't brilliant for sure but she was a whole lot better than the Labour bods that preceeded her, who were incapable of control government spending and never mind Arthur and his cronies.
As manufacturing declined - Thatcher realised we could not compete with emerging nations such as China for mass produced goods - unemployment would rise no matter who was in charge, unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 47951 | No Team Selected |
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May 2002 | 23 years | |
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Whole towns - I think that is going a bit far!! Are you suggesting Labour MPs didn't also walk in directorships or was it just the Tory's?
Thatcher wasn't brilliant for sure but she was a whole lot better than the Labour bods that preceeded her, who were incapable of control government spending and never mind Arthur and his cronies.
As manufacturing declined - Thatcher realised we could not compete with emerging nations such as China for mass produced goods - unemployment would rise no matter who was in charge, unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!'"
Are you enjoying the current crisis, Sal?
Do you think it was utterly unavoidable, and therefore the government that laid the foundations for it (as outlined above) should be applauded?
And apart from vilifying anyone on benefits, what do you suggest the unemployed that you see as inevitable should actually do?
As for "unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!" – can you explain how you would have brought the cost of living down to levels that would have allowed wages to be cut in order to 'compete' on pay with other countries with lower costs of living?
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1136_1263489772.jpg Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "She never lost an election www.politicsresources.net/area/u ... ntvote.htm
In every single election since 1945, more people thought someone else would be better as PM rather than the person who was elected. This isn't unique to Thatcher as you imply.
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Quote: El Barbudo "Ajw71 is making a classic error of logic.'"
Erm, 8 polls which all rank Thatcher in the top 5. The logical conclusion from this is that she was one of the best prime minsisters. Pretty simple really.
Quote: El Barbudo "There are probably polls out there about who was the worst Prime Minister ... and I'd put money on the witch being top of that one.
I am not going to look for such a poll because it would probably have as many failings as the ones that Ajw71 has mentioned.... and prove nothing.'"
Check the other end of my polls for your answer. Thatcher is nowhere near the bottom in any of them.
Quote: El Barbudo "I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.'"
Strange point this, as you can say this about every single prime minister since 1945.
www.politicsresources.net/area/u ... ntvote.htm
In every single election since 1945, more people thought someone else would be better as PM rather than the person who was elected. This isn't unique to Thatcher as you imply.
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1673_1436275874.jpg Jamie Jones-Buchanan
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire"
And neither would any Lancastrian.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1673.jpg |
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| Quote: Hull White Star "I don't have to take your word for it or "prove" anything. I was old enough to not have voted for her and to have lived through her government. The most memorable thing you probably remember is when she snatched your milk from school (thats if you were even born then).'"
The lack of calcium has clearly had an effect.. It just reminds me this, how horrible, mean and nasty the Tories under Thatcher were. They were also incredibly useless. Caused a war, country bankrupt, riots all over the shop, supporters of apartheid, just how anyone with the slightest bit of sense could think Thatcher was anything other than a nut job needs to take a good long look at themselves.
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22483_1351031655.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22483.jpg |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "As I mentioned earlier, the only poll that matters is the poll that her peers, fellow party members, and her cabinet took in November 1990, that was the point at which they chose to sack her from the job because they no longer agreed with her ideology, could see that she was obviously and intensely despised by the electorate, and feared for their own jobs at the next electorate choice.
Now when an extreme right wing politician is sacked by her own party members there can only be two reasons - one is that he/she is embracing a political stance that is too left wing for their tastes, or they are veering too far to the right and into dictatorship realms - like her very best ally Pinochet.
I think we all know why the Tory members of 1990 sacked her and I think we all know what the reality of any "popularity" claims were just by looking back at that time.'"
So because she became unpopular in some quarters at the end of her tenure we are supposed to forget all the good she did?
Doesn't really work like that.
If I cured cancer, the common cold and won 3 nobel peace prizes then slept with Kate Middleton. I might become unpopular for commiting adultery but I've still cured cancer, the common cold and won 3 nobel peace prizes.
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1408_1377158863.jpg [url=http://tinyurl.com/xmaschoccy:3awnsnxa][img:3awnsnxa]http://imgur.com/dR3Vl.gif[/img:3awnsnxa][/url:3awnsnxa]
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| Quote: Ajw71 "So because she became unpopular in some quarters at the end of her tenure we are supposed to forget all the good she did?'"
In the cold light of hindsight she didn't do much good though.
She sold off the family silver, put millions out of work, wrote off at least one generation, spend billions trying to prop up the ERM, cost lives by defending tiny islands thousands of miles away, started the housing boom, destroyed communities and put us on the long slow slide to being a nation that knows the price of everything but the value of nowt.
So no, I don't forget the good she did, I never saw any good and if you'd have lived through it you wouldn't either.
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1357.jpg [b:34xc0vwf]Doubt everything, even this[/b:34xc0vwf]:1357.jpg |
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| Quote: Ajw71 " all the good she did?
'"
There wasn't any
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