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Quote: Mintball "Oh, she was very good at implementing her policies.

So was Adolf.'"

True. But a poll shows high support for and adoration of Adolf. It makes no difference that it was a poll of members of the American Nazi Party. It's a poll. All polls were created equal.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: Him "True. But a poll shows high support for and adoration of Adolf. It makes no difference that it was a poll of members of the American Nazi Party. It's a poll. All polls were created equal.'"


Ah, but some polls are more equal than others.

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Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg



Ajw71 is making a classic error of logic.

I have already pointed out that the majority of voters in General Elections (which is a large sample across all sections of society, all on the same day) repeatedly voted against Margaret Thatcher.
Even when she was "popular" she was unpopular with the majority.

There are probably polls out there about who was the worst Prime Minister ... and I'd put money on the witch being top of that one.
I am not going to look for such a poll because it would probably have as many failings as the ones that Ajw71 has mentioned.... and prove nothing.

I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.

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Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "I lived through the three day week when electricity was rationed due to the miners strike of 1972, I also lived through the Callaghan/Healey debacle when rubbish didn't get emptied, bodies didn't get buried and top rate tax was 83% and basic rate was 33% and the IMF were required to Healey out of the crap.'"

So did I.
I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: El Barbudo "So did I...'"


Brings back memories of the paraffin lamps.

Quote: El Barbudo "I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.'"


Old Rupert helped her with the union bit. I think it's a fair bet that it is not a coincidence that the media company that banned independent trades unions and insisted on an in-house staff association is also the one where sustained and widespread culture of criminal behaviour when it came to the garnering of 'news'.

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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0] ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0] ----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg



Quote: El Barbudo "

I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.'"


She never lost an election icon_biggrin.gif

She was sacked by her own staff before she ever did that - and then the Labour Party contrived to get them re-elected for yet another term in 92, a condemnation of the flavour of politicians available in '92.

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Quote: El Barbudo "So did I.
I also saw VAT introduced at 7.5% and then increased by successive tory governments to 20%, 4 or 5 million unemployed, whole towns thrown on the scrap heap, 17% mortgage rates, tory ministers walking into directorships of newly-privatised companies, and the creation of a chronically unemployed underclass during a roller-coaster of boom-bust-boom-bust.
But hey, she smashed the unions, she must have been fantastic ... no, she simply didn't care, the working class were all the same to her.'"


Whole towns - I think that is going a bit far!! Are you suggesting Labour MPs didn't also walk in directorships or was it just the Tory's?

Thatcher wasn't brilliant for sure but she was a whole lot better than the Labour bods that preceeded her, who were incapable of control government spending and never mind Arthur and his cronies.

As manufacturing declined - Thatcher realised we could not compete with emerging nations such as China for mass produced goods - unemployment would rise no matter who was in charge, unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "Whole towns - I think that is going a bit far!! Are you suggesting Labour MPs didn't also walk in directorships or was it just the Tory's?

Thatcher wasn't brilliant for sure but she was a whole lot better than the Labour bods that preceeded her, who were incapable of control government spending and never mind Arthur and his cronies.

As manufacturing declined - Thatcher realised we could not compete with emerging nations such as China for mass produced goods - unemployment would rise no matter who was in charge, unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!'"


Are you enjoying the current crisis, Sal?

Do you think it was utterly unavoidable, and therefore the government that laid the foundations for it (as outlined above) should be applauded?

And apart from vilifying anyone on benefits, what do you suggest the unemployed that you see as inevitable should actually do?

As for "unless you had a plan to compete on labour cost with the Chinese given the involvement of the unions!!" – can you explain how you would have brought the cost of living down to levels that would have allowed wages to be cut in order to 'compete' on pay with other countries with lower costs of living?

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Quote: JerryChicken "She never lost an election www.politicsresources.net/area/u ... ntvote.htm

In every single election since 1945, more people thought someone else would be better as PM rather than the person who was elected. This isn't unique to Thatcher as you imply.
Quote: El Barbudo "Ajw71 is making a classic error of logic.'"


Erm, 8 polls which all rank Thatcher in the top 5. The logical conclusion from this is that she was one of the best prime minsisters. Pretty simple really.

Quote: El Barbudo "There are probably polls out there about who was the worst Prime Minister ... and I'd put money on the witch being top of that one.
I am not going to look for such a poll because it would probably have as many failings as the ones that Ajw71 has mentioned.... and prove nothing.'"


Check the other end of my polls for your answer. Thatcher is nowhere near the bottom in any of them.

Quote: El Barbudo "I think I'll stick with General Election results ... in which more people thought that someone else was better to run the country than she and I very much doubt those people have changed their minds.'"


Strange point this, as you can say this about every single prime minister since 1945.

www.politicsresources.net/area/u ... ntvote.htm

In every single election since 1945, more people thought someone else would be better as PM rather than the person who was elected. This isn't unique to Thatcher as you imply.


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Quote: Hull White Star "I don't have to take your word for it or "prove" anything. I was old enough to not have voted for her and to have lived through her government. The most memorable thing you probably remember is when she snatched your milk from school (thats if you were even born then).'"


The lack of calcium has clearly had an effect.. It just reminds me this, how horrible, mean and nasty the Tories under Thatcher were. They were also incredibly useless. Caused a war, country bankrupt, riots all over the shop, supporters of apartheid, just how anyone with the slightest bit of sense could think Thatcher was anything other than a nut job needs to take a good long look at themselves.

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Quote: JerryChicken "As I mentioned earlier, the only poll that matters is the poll that her peers, fellow party members, and her cabinet took in November 1990, that was the point at which they chose to sack her from the job because they no longer agreed with her ideology, could see that she was obviously and intensely despised by the electorate, and feared for their own jobs at the next electorate choice.

Now when an extreme right wing politician is sacked by her own party members there can only be two reasons - one is that he/she is embracing a political stance that is too left wing for their tastes, or they are veering too far to the right and into dictatorship realms - like her very best ally Pinochet.

I think we all know why the Tory members of 1990 sacked her and I think we all know what the reality of any "popularity" claims were just by looking back at that time.'"


So because she became unpopular in some quarters at the end of her tenure we are supposed to forget all the good she did?

Doesn't really work like that.

If I cured cancer, the common cold and won 3 nobel peace prizes then slept with Kate Middleton. I might become unpopular for commiting adultery but I've still cured cancer, the common cold and won 3 nobel peace prizes.

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Quote: Ajw71 "So because she became unpopular in some quarters at the end of her tenure we are supposed to forget all the good she did?'"


In the cold light of hindsight she didn't do much good though.

She sold off the family silver, put millions out of work, wrote off at least one generation, spend billions trying to prop up the ERM, cost lives by defending tiny islands thousands of miles away, started the housing boom, destroyed communities and put us on the long slow slide to being a nation that knows the price of everything but the value of nowt.

So no, I don't forget the good she did, I never saw any good and if you'd have lived through it you wouldn't either.

tb
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Quote: Ajw71 " all the good she did?

'"


There wasn't any

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 Thu 24th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Warrington
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull KR
 Fri 25th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Salford
v
Leigh
 Sat 26th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Castleford
17:30
Catalans
v
Wakefield
 Sun 27th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
15:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 3rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Leigh
v
Catalans
17:15
Hull KR
v
Salford
19:30
St.Helens
v
Leeds
 Sun 4th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
13:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull FC
15:15
Wigan
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Wakefield
 Thu 15th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
20:00
St.Helens
v
Catalans
 Fri 16th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
 Sun 25th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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