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'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world' Yves Le Prieur, the real inventor of the aqualung:



I was on a site today and the manager was covering for holidays for two weeks and was sent by an agency, he was telling me how he had been ripped off by these agencies (I am sure it must be illegal).

He saw an advert for site managers for £18 p/hr and it stated on the books or self employed, when he rang up he said he wanted to be on the books and was told that they would pay £15 p/hr only if he was on the books. He agreed to this and signed up. He was told by the agency that he would be working for an 'umbrella' company, who would be paying him directly and the agency took only a fee, which would be deducted from his £15 p/hr, leaving him with about £13.50 p/hr.

When he got his first payslip he noticed a his tax and NI had been taken off and an additional £200 +, when he asked what it was for they said it was to cover what they had to pay in 'employers NI contributions' as they said they were not willing to cover this, the amount deducted also included an 'admin fee' for this deduction.

By the time he had his nett pay, he worked it out to be about £8 p/hr.

When he looked into this further, he found out that the umbrella company was a subsidiary of the employment agency. He asked the builder if he could work direct for them instead and they said the 'didn't want the hassle'

I hope to hell these Tory's don't get another shot at the next election, because with things like this and zero hour contracts being brought in during a coalition, imagine what it's going to be like with a right wing Tory majority.

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The older I get, the better I was Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator." cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg



Did you ask if he was in a union?

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'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world' Yves Le Prieur, the real inventor of the aqualung:



Quote: cod'ead "Did you ask if he was in a union?'"


It was what started the conversation, I got to site after listening to Milibands gut churning display of panic today in his press conference. Labour politicians seem to think it's their party and forget what it's routes are. We need a few more Pat Walls and Dave Nellists in there, but honesty and integrity seem to be frowned upon by Miliband, Balls and co.

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Quote: rover49 "...and forget what it's routes are...'"


Too reliant on chauffeurs I guess.

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The older I get, the better I was Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator." cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg



Quote: rover49 "It was what started the conversation, I got to site after listening to Milibands gut churning display of panic today in his press conference. Labour politicians seem to think it's their party and forget what it's routes are. We need a few more Pat Walls and Dave Nellists in there, but honesty and integrity seem to be frowned upon by Miliband, Balls and co.'"


If he was in a union, I'm sure they'd be only too pleased to look over the terms and alert HMRC if they think anything untoward is occurring. Mind you, I could understand anyone's reluctance in the construction industry, given what happened with the blacklist. Why the likes of McAlpine, Wimpey and others aren't doing time like the Shrewsbury 24 did is beyond me

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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0] ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0] ----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg



This could be a too obvious question, but why doesn't he take the self employed £18 an hour option - he'd certainly be left with more than £8 and the accounting work involved for a labour-only contractor is minimal.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: JerryChicken "This could be a too obvious question, but why doesn't he take the self employed £18 an hour option - he'd certainly be left with more than £8 and the accounting work involved for a labour-only contractor is minimal.'"


No sick pay, no holiday pay, dealing with tax yourself etc.

Yours, self-employed person

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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0] ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0] ----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg



Quote: Mintball "No sick pay, no holiday pay, dealing with tax yourself etc.

Yours, self-employed person'"



I know, I've been there myself, for twenty-odd years, I'm now employed but still treat my employment as if I were self employed, I have only taken one sick day in god knows how many years and that was when I was hospitalised, and I won't be taking all of my allowed holidays this year AGAIN because I'm used to not taking holidays and frankly can't be d - I'm lucky in that I'm an independant unit within the company, work from home, am very self-reliant, clear the mess up after everyone and keep the customers happy.

As for the tax, as a stand-alone self employed person its not that hard really is it, you should try being a Limited Company and employ staff - now that is a pain in the bollax and I won't be going back there again.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Talking of Tory Britain, rlhow the Conservative Party gets multi-million pound donations from 'single' sources, yet stops it being very obvious.rl

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The older I get, the better I was Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator." cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg



Quote: Mintball "Talking of Tory Britain, rlhow the Conservative Party gets multi-million pound donations from 'single' sources, yet stops it being very obvious.rl'"


Thankfully there is rlSearch the Moneyrl. they have been conducting a twitter campaign, bombarding CCHQ Press Office and individual MPs with requests for more information. Needless to say, many have now blocked them

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"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin [url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o] [url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o] This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif



Back to the OP.

Not an uncommon arrangement in construction these days unfortunately. We get clients coming in for tax returns completing who worked through umbrella companies and have since gone back to working directly through agencies.

They can't make deductions from his salary and call it "employer's NIC", so they'll charge an admin fee instead which covers their E/ers NIC liabilities. They will be recharging the agency for his wages no doubt, so effectively the umbrella company is employing him at zero cost to them. The agency gets him working at a fraction of the hourly rate they would otherwise have had to pay him as a self-employed person.

Frankly, he's going to be better off taking the £18p/h self employed option and having 20% knocked off under CIS, then getting a nice, reasonably priced accountant to do his tax return. I can recommend somewhere that does them for £150+ VAT icon_smile.gif

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



So in other words, we're seeing a casualisation of labour – this sort of thing, zero-hours contracts (isn't that a contradiction in terms?) etc.

Brilliant. Clearly the way forward.

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Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg



Quote: Mintball "So in other words, we're seeing a casualisation of labour – this sort of thing, zero-hours contracts (isn't that a contradiction in terms?) etc.

Brilliant. Clearly the way forward.'"

But not flexible enough for Cameron, don't forget that the EU is absolutely strangling British businesses with red tape around employment, oh yes.
What we need is more poverty and underemployment, so that the masses will fight each other for the chance of a job.

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The older I get, the better I was Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator." cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg



I lobbed a grenade onto the Hull FC board with rlThis threadrl

No matter how loyally I may support the club, I cannot accept any company not paying staff in the name of providing experience through an "internship"

Him
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Quote: Mintball "So in other words, we're seeing a casualisation of labour – this sort of thing, zero-hours contracts (isn't that a contradiction in terms?) etc.

Brilliant. Clearly the way forward.'"

Yep. Agencies are advertising jobs and guaranteeing weeks or months worth of work whilst there's either only a few days work or none at all simply to get people on their books. When there is work they call on the day and get them to go anywhere within around 100 miles. Causing people to get their hopes up and in some cases turn down other work for no reason. Not to mention the impracticalities for many people of not knowing whether you'll be working tomorrow or not or where it's going to be.

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15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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