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Possibly showing my age here, but I was a little taken aback by this clip from The Apprentice, in which contestants express uncertainty about the years in which the Second World War started and ended.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07s9hwj
I’m not looking to demonise these young men and women, and in fairness they do initially get it right. It feels like such basic historical knowledge for my generation (born in the 1970s), that you take it for granted. Is it surprising, or is it inevitable that it’ll fade from public consciousness in the coming decades?
Realistically, how many people of any age in the UK could now give the start and end years for the Boer War, or the Crimean War or the year of the Battle of Waterloo, off the top of their heads? And being honest, I have just had to check whether the Falklands was in ‘82 or ‘83, and I saw the news coverage myself as a child.
Ultimately, is it even natural and healthy that it eventually comes to be viewed like those earlier conflicts? Although I appreciate the difference in scale, obviously.
The Orange Walks commemorating a battle that took place in 1690 look a little strange to me in the 21st century, for example. |
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Possibly showing my age here, but I was a little taken aback by this clip from The Apprentice, in which contestants express uncertainty about the years in which the Second World War started and ended.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07s9hwj
I’m not looking to demonise these young men and women, and in fairness they do initially get it right. It feels like such basic historical knowledge for my generation (born in the 1970s), that you take it for granted. Is it surprising, or is it inevitable that it’ll fade from public consciousness in the coming decades?
Realistically, how many people of any age in the UK could now give the start and end years for the Boer War, or the Crimean War or the year of the Battle of Waterloo, off the top of their heads? And being honest, I have just had to check whether the Falklands was in ‘82 or ‘83, and I saw the news coverage myself as a child.
Ultimately, is it even natural and healthy that it eventually comes to be viewed like those earlier conflicts? Although I appreciate the difference in scale, obviously.
The Orange Walks commemorating a battle that took place in 1690 look a little strange to me in the 21st century, for example. | |
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As a child of the 50s/60s I was brought up on a diet of Airfix models and war comics such as the Victor and Hotspur. Consequently, my knowledge of the war is pretty good albeit my knowledge of German is limited to "Actung Spitfire". At the time it didnt seem odd to be fed with so much propaganda, after all we won the war -didnt we? Looking back now it all seems a bit strange and even stranger that so many of the pro brexit crowd appear to have resurrected the language and this one sided view of the war.
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| Quote: "As a child of the 50s/60s I was brought up on a diet of Airfix models and war comics such as the Victor and Hotspur. Consequently, my knowledge of the war is pretty good albeit my knowledge of German is limited to "Actung Spitfire". At the time it didnt seem odd to be fed with so much propaganda, after all we won the war -didnt we? Looking back now it all seems a bit strange and even stranger that so many of the pro brexit crowd appear to have resurrected the language and this one sided view of the war.'"
Typical, a thread about rememberance (and it isn't just WW1 and the sequel) and someone brings brexit into it.  |
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| Quote: "Typical, a thread about rememberance (and it isn't just WW1 and the sequel) and someone brings brexit into it. ![]()
And the title of the thread is "lest we forget", primarily about the first and second world war which just in case you had forgotten, Europe has managed to avoid major conflict since the EU "joined together" - try and remember that if it ever splinters.
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I was born in 1960; WW2 always seemed a world away in time & effect. It now amazes me to think it was ended only 15 years before that, & it is strange how little my family really talked about it, despite my Dad & all my Uncles going to war & returning. I guess our area of Yorkshire got off relatively lightly. I think that experience & the fact that we 'won' has a significant effect on attitudes today.
As regards the Boer War, Crimean War or the Battle of Waterloo - I would struggle to even say which century the latter 2 were in.
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| Quote: " I think that experience & the fact that we 'won' has a significant effect on attitudes today.
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As in your case, my dad and uncles were also involved in the fighting during WW2 and two of those uncles never returned. However, in spite of that my dad never used any of jingoistic language that has become so common over the last 3 years. Consequently, I feel that the 'significant effect' you refer to hasn't been handed down by the veterans but rather resurrected by people who have never experienced the horrors of war. |
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| Quote: "As in your case, my dad and uncles were also involved in the fighting during WW2 and two of those uncles never returned. However, in spite of that my dad never used any of jingoistic language that has become so common over the last 3 years. Consequently, I feel that the 'significant effect' you refer to hasn't been handed down by the veterans but rather resurrected by people who have never experienced the horrors of war.'"
Undoubtedly. Those I have come across who talk about the war were not involved or didn't experience the real horrors of war. It's probably been the same 1066, with a sector of society suggesting our superiority over those we have fought or conquered. |
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| Quote: "As regards the Boer War, Crimean War or the Battle of Waterloo - I would struggle to even say which century the latter 2 were in.'"
rl[iYou are probably the best argument against a comprehensive education system that I have come across.[/irl 
But seriously, really? You couldn't name the century? 
Hint: they were all within a 100 years of one another and almost within the same century (and there were 2 Boer Wars).
Even with my casual interest in history I could probably name and roughly date the majority of significant conflicts across the globe going back to the Punic Wars. That's not me being a smartarse, I assumed most reasonably intelligent adults above a certain age could do the same to one degree or another. |
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| Quote: "As a child of the 50s/60s I was brought up on a diet of Airfix models and war comics such as the Victor and Hotspur. Consequently, my knowledge of the war is pretty good albeit my knowledge of German is limited to "Actung Spitfire". At the time it didnt seem odd to be fed with so much propaganda, after all we won the war -didnt we? Looking back now it all seems a bit strange and even stranger that so many of the pro brexit crowd appear to have resurrected the language and this one sided view of the war.'"
You sound like one of those whining remainers who bang on about how "leavers just think they can go back to the days of the Empire". A large heavy fish to the face is the only solution when confronted with that level of debate.
Although through the 70s/80s, I was also brought up on war comics and films, and loved dressing up as a soldier with my replica gun running round shooting Krauts and Nips. Bear in mind boys have played soldiers throughout human history...until the last few years (toy guns**Yes I am fully aware other countries suffered and some suffered far, far more - but before a wave of whataboutery hits me, we are discussing the UK here**[/i In my view we have every right to tell stories about what were after all the two biggest and most significant events in human history, in which we were major players and endured some horrific times before emerging victorious. Call it bragging rights, whatever. Just don't try and be too pompous and angle it as propaganda. |
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| Quote: "
But seriously, really? You couldn't name the century? ![]()
I could have guessed. In fact I just did & got them right according to google. My O level history was so long ago I cannot remember anything we studied apart from WW1 & 2. Ironically I can still recite the events leading up to the outbreaks as I did it for my exam. Other than that I have no interest in military history. A lot of it tends to be written by those who romanticise it.
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| Quote: "Possibly showing my age here, but I was a little taken aback by this clip from The Apprentice, in which contestants express uncertainty about the years in which the Second World War started and ended.
As I have just "ranted" in the Boris thread, it would seem selective education is not a new thing. The OP refers to the Boer war, unaware it would seem that there were 2 Boer Wars, the second of which the British Lost (only 2 wars that they lost in the 20th century, the second being the Irish war of independence.
There's a lack of realistic information/education as to what went on in Europe between the "wars' as well, with the reasons behind the rise of nationalism in Germany and the Balkan states being driven by a period of austerity forced upon them by the winning imperial forces.......smacks of a hint of familiarity with current sentiments.....blaming someone else for the hardships being felt at home, in 1930's Germany, it was the Jews, in 2019 Britain, it's the immigrants.
British history is happy to ignore the schism in the Christian Churches caused by the overzealous libido of your monarch. English History teaches little if anything of the birth of the concentration camps......or the Irish Famine, or the Penal colonies in the 'stralias, of the Irish slaves in America (have you ever wondered why West Indians sound Irish or why bottled Guinness is so popular with the Caribbean community.
The Orange Marches by the way are a right of passage. Like a dog pissing on it's territory, the protestants of Ulster (google the plantation of ulster...another british highpoint)march and bang drums because they are in fear of the fact that they will soon be a minority and the false country they live in (Britains good at false countries...Pakistan, Israel.....). The Irish Famine didn;t impact on the norther counties populated by Protestants by the way......nor the scottish areas where the potato blight also impacted on crops, but British Land Owners in the US benefited from an influx of free irish labour.....
The History taught your kids isn't about educating them. Its about telling the what the wealthy want them to know!
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| Quote: "As I have just "ranted" in the Boris thread, it would seem selective education is not a new thing. The OP refers to the Boer war, unaware it would seem that there were 2 Boer Wars, the second of which the British Lost (only 2 wars that they lost in the 20th century, the second being the Irish war of independence.
There's a lack of realistic information/education as to what went on in Europe between the "wars' as well, with the reasons behind the rise of nationalism in Germany and the Balkan states being driven by a period of austerity forced upon them by the winning imperial forces.......smacks of a hint of familiarity with current sentiments.....blaming someone else for the hardships being felt at home, in 1930's Germany, it was the Jews, in 2019 Britain, it's the immigrants.
British history is happy to ignore the schism in the Christian Churches caused by the overzealous libido of your monarch. English History teaches little if anything of the birth of the concentration camps......or the Irish Famine, or the Penal colonies in the 'stralias, of the Irish slaves in America (have you ever wondered why West Indians sound Irish or why bottled Guinness is so popular with the Caribbean community.
The Orange Marches by the way are a right of passage. Like a dog pissing on it's territory, the protestants of Ulster (google the plantation of ulster...another british highpoint)march and bang drums because they are in fear of the fact that they will soon be a minority and the false country they live in (Britains good at false countries...Pakistan, Israel.....). The Irish Famine didn;t impact on the norther counties populated by Protestants by the way......nor the scottish areas where the potato blight also impacted on crops, but British Land Owners in the US benefited from an influx of free irish labour.....
The History taught your kids isn't about educating them. Its about telling the what the wealthy want them to know!'"
Cant argue with any of that but, there are plenty that still dont understand the class structure and pretend that it is a thing of the past.
Occasionally we are thrown a few scraps just to keep up the pretence that we are all equal. |
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| Quote: "Cant argue with any of that but, there are plenty that still dont understand the class structure and pretend that it is a thing of the past.
Occasionally we are thrown a few scraps just to keep up the pretence that we are all equal.'"
Life is not fair it is not meant to be fair - there will always be more intelligent humans, humans with greater sporting prowess, humans with superior physical capabilities. We are not all equal - its the biggest flaw in Socialist/Marxist/Communist theory. |
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| Quote: "Life is not fair it is not meant to be fair - there will always be more intelligent humans, humans with greater sporting prowess, humans with superior physical capabilities. We are not all equal - its the biggest flaw in Socialist/Marxist/Communist theory.'"
There is no socialist theory that suggests that everyone is equal; or that life is, or should be, 'fair.' You're just talking nonsense.
The mantra is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution," which is actually the opposite of what you're suggesting. |
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