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Quote: Pumpetypump "Wakefield turning blue has shown that the generation has been reached that does not have a hard-wired memory of closing the coal mines. As soon as the heartlands reached the tipping point of being too young to specifically remember their core industries going (Its the same up in the North East just different industries), then their conservative instincts were there to exploit.

The lost labour wall are not going to suddenly have an epiphany and come back to Labour anytime soon. I don't have any sense that they regret their Conservative votes to any meaningful degree. However, as I've mentioned before there is a growing dissatisfaction with Johnson among his core traditional voters who feel, ironically, neglected and forgotten. Some of them will be going Liberal Democrat.'"


You may be right but, when inflation starts to rise and taxes also increase to pay for the pandemic, all those who were drawn in by the "levelling up" promise, will realise that they were sold (another) pup.
In the meantime It's up to Labour to sort themselves out and come up with some policies that have some appeal to the masses and not just bang on about those on benefits.
Of course "we" have to protect the poorest members of society but, there needs to be some "hope" for everyone.

The one certainty is that, should interest rates start to move, coupled with some tax increases, there will be a hell of a lot of people that feel the squeeze.

The national debt has pretty much doubled since 2007 and it will need to be brought down to a lower level.
Again, should interest rates rise, it will take some controlling.

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Quote: Durham Giant "I think that you will find that most of the early closures under Atlee Wilson and Heath were due to the fact that the pits were no longer capable of producing coal or were not safe. Everyone accepts that coal,seams get mined out and are effectively EMPTY of coal. What you will also find is that when those pits closed miners tended to move to other areas . So you had lots of Durham miners go to Northumberland or down to Notts.

The. Closures under Thatcher in the main were of pits That still had Coal . Often it was coal that could still be mined but not at a price that was as cheap as polish coal or even Australian So they were deemed uneconomic. I am still waiting for wotsupcas to provide evidence that it cosy £400 to produce £1 of coal as that is. It something I ever heard during the strike. Many economic arguements were put forward which clearly said that the making of miners be unemployed far outweighed the losses on any coal mined. It was a pure free market economic arguement to close them down allied to the attempts to destroy the Trade Unions and allow for a much more free market approach to running the economy.'"

It didn't matter that the pits had coal they were economically unviable to mine in part because of the unions ,under wilson and Heath the pits that closed downs work force could not be made redundant and so got moved to other pits which in turn made them unviable ,so a combination of weak government and bolshoi unions helped to accelerate the demise of the coal industry in this country

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Quote: wotsupcas "It was hardly Thatchers mess as she left office in 1990. Majors mess maybe but tbf the economy was in pretty good shape in 1997 when the electorate were taken in by snake oil salesman Blair'"


Tbf, the Leaders that followed Thatcher into office were always going to come up short and the Tory lead just narrowed and narrowed with each new leader, until, finally, something had to break.
Blair made some huge mistakes as PM, notably the PFI on Schools and hospitals (although they were, at the time seen as quick fixes) and of course, the illegal war in the Middle East, although, this was heavily supported by the Tories and there is little doubt that, it would have still happened whoever was in power. However, when you compare the politics of Thatcher and Blair
there was certainly a different "tone" to their style.
Thatcher was very much "look after no 1 and sod the rest", whereas Blair seemed rather more inclusive.

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It's probably already been covered but I put more of the blame on Scargill than I do on Thatcher.
Whether she was what you wanted or not, she was elected and was defending her policies.
Scargill was not elected by the country and even went against those that did vote for him.
His strategy was flawed from the beginning and just handed the win to Thatcher because of his personal ego in many cases.
The miners that suffered, suffered badly and much of it could have been avoided. (I realise that's easy to say with hindsight)

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Quote: PopTart "It's probably already been covered but I put more of the blame on Scargill than I do on Thatcher.
Whether she was what you wanted or not, she was elected and was defending her policies.
Scargill was not elected by the country and even went against those that did vote for him.
His strategy was flawed from the beginning and just handed the win to Thatcher because of his personal ego in many cases.
The miners that suffered, suffered badly and much of it could have been avoided. (I realise that's easy to say with hindsight)'"



Thank you for your potted history of the dispute, where did you get the information from, Thatcher's autobiography?

I could dissect this post & give an alternative version, but what would be the point, you're too intransigent & I'm too tired to care.

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Quote: The Devil's Advocate "Thank you for your potted history of the dispute, where did you get the information from, Thatcher's autobiography?

I could dissect this post & give an alternative version, but what would be the point, you're too intransigent & I'm too tired to care.'"


Id be happy to discuss.
Don't get my wrong, I'm not suggesting Thatcher did good things, but Scargill's role has been very well documented. It wasn't just a war of good versus evil as some would have it. It was two divisive leaders getting their agenda through at the expense of the guy on the coal face.

The miners were stuffed just as much by the unions as the government.
Its a matter of law now that solicitors and union leaders have been taken to court and in prison for mistreating union members over VBF claims fraud.
Not everyone came out of the miners strike poor..... And that is travesty here. IMHO.

I'm not in the mining industry but I lived through the miners strike in a mining area and my family has generations of miners before me. So I have no love for the destruction of the industry, but I am also open enough to see all sides of the argument.

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