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Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"Current research on the LAMBDA variant suggests that you are wrong . That variant is already in this country. Fortunately it seems to not be able to bypass Pfizer and Moderna vaccines But allowing pretty much unfettered holiday travel will certainly add to the scientific experiment currently ongoing.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21259673v1
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No it doesn't. The exact opposite in fact. Lambda variant does not completely evade vaccine protection - and this is the Chinese de-activated live virus vaccine. By the way, I didn't say it was impossible, I said it was "highly unlikely".
If you really want to look at this paper in detail they perform no serology - partly because they didn't have access to the Lambda antigen test, they use a pseudo viral neutralisation assay which shows only one part of the immune response, and that response is reduced but not eliminated. It's not a complete picture. You see the same pattern with the delta and the UK variant and that's because the vaccines had the wild type virus as the model. The Lambda variant is the C37 lineage and we make it and supply serology assays for it as a variant of concern. the guys who produced this paper didn't have it.
I would also add that there is complex immune response generated by the vaccines, including T-Cell. The vaccines even seem to generate and immune response to parts of the virus not part of the vaccine itself, and it's not clear why.
I also didn't say we should have unfettered international travel. I didn't mention travel at all.
As for flu, I am acutely aware of how flu mutates, I have worked with vaccine manufacturers to improve their serology and vaccine quantification assays. The group I recently worked with at Oxford are very close to a universal flu vaccine - one shot for life. There are other groups also getting to this point. |
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Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"Current research on the LAMBDA variant suggests that you are wrong . That variant is already in this country. Fortunately it seems to not be able to bypass Pfizer and Moderna vaccines But allowing pretty much unfettered holiday travel will certainly add to the scientific experiment currently ongoing.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21259673v1
'"
No it doesn't. The exact opposite in fact. Lambda variant does not completely evade vaccine protection - and this is the Chinese de-activated live virus vaccine. By the way, I didn't say it was impossible, I said it was "highly unlikely".
If you really want to look at this paper in detail they perform no serology - partly because they didn't have access to the Lambda antigen test, they use a pseudo viral neutralisation assay which shows only one part of the immune response, and that response is reduced but not eliminated. It's not a complete picture. You see the same pattern with the delta and the UK variant and that's because the vaccines had the wild type virus as the model. The Lambda variant is the C37 lineage and we make it and supply serology assays for it as a variant of concern. the guys who produced this paper didn't have it.
I would also add that there is complex immune response generated by the vaccines, including T-Cell. The vaccines even seem to generate and immune response to parts of the virus not part of the vaccine itself, and it's not clear why.
I also didn't say we should have unfettered international travel. I didn't mention travel at all.
As for flu, I am acutely aware of how flu mutates, I have worked with vaccine manufacturers to improve their serology and vaccine quantification assays. The group I recently worked with at Oxford are very close to a universal flu vaccine - one shot for life. There are other groups also getting to this point. | |
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| Quote DHM="DHM"Thankfully that's highly unlikely. The vaccines generate an immune response to the critical part of the virus used for cell invasion. It can only change so much before it becomes unable to invade the cell. In all probability mutations that completely avoid the vaccine induced immune response (if that's even possible) would not be able to replicate via cell invasion and immediately disappear.
We've made a lot of variants of the spike protein - around 45 so far - we can see how little there is left to potentially change. Mutations need to not effect the 3D structure of the protein to the point where it becomes unstable.
I agree with the rest of your post though. The death rate amongst young people is low but it's not zero. The difference between Covid and flu is that we have highly effective vaccines against covid, we don't currently against flu. In essence by not waiting until all over 18's are vaccinated (just a few short weeks) and allowing infections to spread rapidly, people will die who have no need to die.'"
It's going to be an "interesting" few months and it would be more interesting to know just how many people who have had 0ne or two doses of the vaccine are still contracting covid.
I realise this may have a negative effect on the vaccine program and that it's probably more important to ensure that the take up of the vaccine is as high as possible but, there are plenty of double jabbed people contracting the virus and whilst I will happily bow to your knowledge on vaccines, what would be the effect of any new variant(s), especially when we have a significant increase in overseas travel on the way. |
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| Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"It's going to be an "interesting" few months and it would be more interesting to know just how many people who have had 0ne or two doses of the vaccine are still contracting covid.
I realise this may have a negative effect on the vaccine program and that it's probably more important to ensure that the take up of the vaccine is as high as possible but, there are plenty of double jabbed people contracting the virus and whilst I will happily bow to your knowledge on vaccines, what would be the effect of any new variant(s), especially when we have a significant increase in overseas travel on the way.'"
It's called Vaccine Breakthrough, PHE are doing the study and they will use our technology platform to do a lot of it. I work with them, I can't discuss details but they are planning comprehensive work. If it is reassuring at all vaccine breakthrough to do with the individuals response to the vaccine rather than variants. They will also do reinfection studies.
We (my company) have made around 60 variants of covid, including several strains of the delta and the C37 etc. We use a standard sample in all our tests that's calibrated to the WHO reference material, it's a pool of several covid positive convalescent individuals, it's from early last year so the infection was wild type (Wuhan strain). All the variants we test show massive antibody binding from that sample and ACE2 inhibition - direct inhibition of ACE2 binding to the viral protein. What that means is that all the variants so far (as I said we have made around 60), are still identified and strongly bound by antibodies from Wuhan strain infected individuals.
I want to be reassuring because we are in a really good place with the vaccines, they are highly effective against all forms of the virus so far and the people at the sharp end of this are all pretty confident that no mutation will appear that completely sidesteps the massive immune response the vaccines generate. I'm not being political, just factual. Booster shots are looking highly effective as well. |
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As far as I know, the primary purpose of a vaccine is to minimise the chances of long term damage and death of a person from the virus, which all these covid vaccines do at a very effective rate.
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| Quote DHM="DHM"It's called Vaccine Breakthrough, PHE are doing the study and they will use our technology platform to do a lot of it. I work with them, I can't discuss details but they are planning comprehensive work. If it is reassuring at all vaccine breakthrough to do with the individuals response to the vaccine rather than variants. They will also do reinfection studies.
We (my company) have made around 60 variants of covid, including several strains of the delta and the C37 etc. We use a standard sample in all our tests that's calibrated to the WHO reference material, it's a pool of several covid positive convalescent individuals, it's from early last year so the infection was wild type (Wuhan strain). All the variants we test show massive antibody binding from that sample and ACE2 inhibition - direct inhibition of ACE2 binding to the viral protein. What that means is that all the variants so far (as I said we have made around 60), are still identified and strongly bound by antibodies from Wuhan strain infected individuals.
I want to be reassuring because we are in a really good place with the vaccines, they are highly effective against all forms of the virus so far and the people at the sharp end of this are all pretty confident that no mutation will appear that completely sidesteps the massive immune response the vaccines generate. I'm not being political, just factual. Booster shots are looking highly effective as well.'"
Excellent posting. |
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| Quote DHM="DHM"It's called Vaccine Breakthrough, PHE are doing the study and they will use our technology platform to do a lot of it. I work with them, I can't discuss details but they are planning comprehensive work. If it is reassuring at all vaccine breakthrough to do with the individuals response to the vaccine rather than variants. They will also do reinfection studies.
We (my company) have made around 60 variants of covid, including several strains of the delta and the C37 etc. We use a standard sample in all our tests that's calibrated to the WHO reference material, it's a pool of several covid positive convalescent individuals, it's from early last year so the infection was wild type (Wuhan strain). All the variants we test show massive antibody binding from that sample and ACE2 inhibition - direct inhibition of ACE2 binding to the viral protein. What that means is that all the variants so far (as I said we have made around 60), are still identified and strongly bound by antibodies from Wuhan strain infected individuals.
I want to be reassuring because we are in a really good place with the vaccines, they are highly effective against all forms of the virus so far and the people at the sharp end of this are all pretty confident that no mutation will appear that completely sidesteps the massive immune response the vaccines generate. I'm not being political, just factual. Booster shots are looking highly effective as well.'"
Great explanation, thank you. |
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It sounds like freedom day may not be as stated with the continuance of mask wearing inside public areas and on transport. I wonder who had been pushing for this change.
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| Quote Scarlet Pimpernell="Scarlet Pimpernell"It sounds like freedom day may not be as stated with the continuance of mask wearing inside public areas and on transport. I wonder who had been pushing for this change.'"
Although this will now be a "personal choice" and not an instruction and impossible for retailers etc to enforce. 
It was interesting to hear that a double jabbed person, over 50 is still more likely to die than an non jabbed person under 30, although "long covid" can and will affect the young. |
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| Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"Although this will now be a "personal choice" and not an instruction and impossible for retailers etc to enforce.
It was interesting to hear that a double jabbed person, over 50 is still more likely to die than an non jabbed person under 30, although "long covid" can and will affect the young.'"
Retailers don’t enforce it now from what I can see - cant remember the last time I saw someone get challenged around our area, and have to say the majority of non mask wearers were under 30’s and primarily males, likely giving their ego a boost |
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It really isn't the role of minimum wage shop staff, arguably even security staff, to enforce mask wearing. The conflict and abuse that leads to is not what they are there for.
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| Quote The Ghost of '99="The Ghost of '99"It really isn't the role of minimum wage shop staff, arguably even security staff, to enforce mask wearing. The conflict and abuse that leads to is not what they are there for.'"
For once I agree with you  ,which is probably why it isn’t challenged - certainly don’t blame them |
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