Sadly, it’s very often the case that people incapable of any foresight or forward planning and making contingency plans will trot out “with the benefit of hindsight”

I see the champagne socialists are out in force in this thread.

As I said earlier, if our fellow eu countries recorded deaths like we do, or we recorded deaths like they do, we would have the lowest death per capita of Europe. We achieved this without the strict lockdown that Spain and Italy implemented. Friends of mine in Spain were allowed to leave the house once a week for food and their kids weren’t allowed to leave the house at all.

They also weren’t paid 80% of their wage for 3 months to sit at home eating junk food and drinking alcohol.

Could you imagine labour being in charge for this? Lmao. Can you imagine Diane Abbott doing the daily press conference “today we can announce that eleven and hundred twenty three percent have died today” followed by Corbyn with “no terrorists died today thankfully but 1000 Jews did, yay!”

This is utterly untrue - and the sad thing is you know it.

The prime example being Spain.

They suddenly changed their reporting method on 27th March. Now, they only report deaths that occurred [iand were registered[/i the previous day. Given the inevitable lag in registering deaths, they suddenly started reporting zero or single-digit figures. Yet on 27th May there were 17 deaths in Madrid and Castile-La Mancha alone that went unreported, and daily deaths are still certainly not at zero. Smell the BS yet?

Most of May: between 300ish and 80ish
May 25: -1,915 (some adjustments)
May 26: 283
May 27: 1
May 28: 1
May 29: 2
May 30: 4
May 31: 2
Jun 01: 0

Italy has also changed their reporting several times. For example they stopped reporting on asymptomatic positively tested cases (40-50% of all tests). Yep - that's precisely what it sounds like. If a person was positive but not displaying symptoms they sent them home to isolate and did not add them to their numbers.

Furthermore, not all countries report deaths in all settings as we do.

Now I ask you - what would your reaction be if our government counted the numbers like Spain and Italy and also ignored some settings?

Fact is, we've been over-reporting deaths directly due to covid. BMA guidance in completing death certificates guarantees that will happen (happy to elaborate), although I appreciate excess deaths are still huge and there are many factors that come in to play, almost certainly associated associated with lockdown.

Have you looked at the excess death totals per country which is the preferred option for the government. It currently shows in Europe we have the highest number of excess deaths so please explain that away. I regret that the only Europe beating system we have is the number of people who have died unnecessarily because of this government’s failures.
If we were doing so well why drop the graph comparing us to several other countries. The one thing this government is good at is burying anything they consider reflects badly on them. The next stage will be an attempt to pass the blame onto the scientists in preparation for the report to come on their failures or the care homes for PPE failures not the fact that they transferred patients out of hospitals without testing in order to clear beds at any costs.

I’d ignore them, as I do anyway, and look at the excess mortality. Then at least you’re looking at differences in circumstances and performance (largely circumstances) rather than differences in counting. Cuts through all the bs and statistical sophistry.

This is a public health emergency more than a political issue. Or it should be.

Our government is much more than its political leadership. Its performance, ours as a nation, has inevitably been mixed. Some very good things, some missteps and sadly a very large death toll during the spring. The eventual inquiry will be most valuable if it is dull, dispassionate, conducted by public health experts and focused on our systems rather than individual decisions at the top, unless they were unusually and highly consequential.

To the extent that it is political, then it has fallen at a bad time, with faux-authentic farcemeister Boris Johnson stumbling through the crisis with even his thin bonhomie evaporating in the face of stress, his own illness and mounting confirmation of his personal unsuitability for leadership. Corbyn would have been near as bad for other reasons, I suspect/acknowledge.

On the other hand, the furlough scheme created by Sunak and the Treasury has been well-directed and effective overall. There’ll be exceptions and inconsistencies and issues with delivery that are unfortunate for individuals but the concept was sound. As I understand it, the US has spent more per capita on domestic economic relief measures, but poured it in mostly at the top where it has largely stayed.

Oh dear.

We're not talking about any socialists on this one, they are not the ones "running" the apology of a government and making a total hash of controlling the spread of the virus.
Allowing people to travel wherever they want to "exercise" was an absolute mistake, both in the message that it sent and risking the huge crowds seen at various beauty spots.

You dont have be a genius to work out what was going to happen, although, it did move the Cummings story from the front pages so, it was obviously worth while



As for pointing to the ways that different countries record their deaths, this is just the latest distraction tactic, to take the heat off our appalling numbers.

There are very few things that you can look at and think that "we" couldn't have done better.
Raising the capacity of ICU beds is probably the one exception to this and credit can be offered for this.
There is still a huge trust issue for most of the government output they have exaggerated and lied over every aspect of their handling and what little credibility they may have had at the start has long since disappeared.
Mickey up in a brewery springs to mind and this lot certainly couldn't organise one, even without the need for social distancing.

I see soggy mange cat has derailed, so I will post this link...[url=https://www.facebook.com/realCandaceOwens/videos/273957870461345/?t=105The REAL Black America opinion?[/url

No.
You can find different voices on anything and they are not always illegitimate but citing a black Trump supporter when
90%+ of black Americans will vote for Biden is not going to find you a representative viewpoint.

Candace Owens on Facebook. I thought you 'thought for yourself'?

Quote King Street Cat="King Street Cat"Candace Owens on Facebook. I thought you 'thought for yourself'?'" Well, given almost everyone on here disregards anything said from an opposing viewpoint, it makes sense to listen to the views of someone who has experience of being a black American in the US. But you STILL ignore it. Do the left ever listen to anyone with opposing views? So how about this chap: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268 ... 34279.html ? Some very insightful numbers and strong points in there. The most astounding being that, when you break it down, 50% of ALL murders in the US are committed by 3.5% of the population: black men aged 15-40.

Quote King Street Cat="King Street Cat"Candace Owens on Facebook. I thought you 'thought for yourself'?'" Well, given almost everyone on here disregards anything said from an opposing viewpoint, it makes sense to listen to the views of someone who has experience of being a black American in the US. But you STILL ignore it. Do the left ever listen to anyone with opposing views? So how about this chap: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268 ... 34279.html ? Some very insightful numbers and strong points in there. The most astounding being that, when you break it down, 50% of ALL murders in the US are committed by 3.5% of the population: black men aged 15-40.