I'm not going to back off from Nandy, what ever happens re Brexit I think she has really shown admirably even though she is a retainer and Labour I would vote for her if she was my local MP.

How can you say you would take Gove over anyone mate, he makes my skin crawl. Raab for me

The last 20 or so comments show just how messed up parliamentary democracy is, there aren't viable leaders on any side. This, OUR, Country is screwed.

And it's only taken 9 years for the Tories to get us to this point. Just think how things will be if they get another 9 years.

This isn't just down to the Conservatives (no such thing as Tories/Whigs for the last 200 years plus). Try reading some history.

Sorry pal, it is entirely down to the nutters in blue.

After nine years they haven't even got one saving grace to their credit, just a series of calamities. They've even managed to bring about the first fall in longevity since records began.

It's only took one referendum and them having to make and agree on a democratic decision made by the public, and none of them have got a clue how to proceed. I agree the way May went about it was really alienating and the wrong way for a decision such as this. However, this is a failure across the house not just the Tories IMO.

The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more.

Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.

The Tories are the party "in control" but, they haven't got a clue.
If Mrs May cant manage to find agreement within her own cabinet, how can the finger of blame be pointed elsewhere.

IF there was consensus among the Tories and Labour and the SNP etc were scuppering their chances, then, fair enough, you could point the finger elsewhere. However, the current mess is pretty much ALL of Mrs May's own making. From the failed land grab at the snap election which broke the Tories own rules, to the abject way that SHE ignored EVERYONE else and chose her own path.

How she is still at the helm is just mind boggling and perhaps you could blame Corbyn for not having the wit to oust her but this is down to Mrs May, her utter lack of vision and total lack of party leadership and her inability to do the job of Prime Minister, albeit in difficult circumstances.

The middle ground clearly lays with some kind of customs union and this may not appease all of the Brexitiers but, I do believe that it could get through parliament and then could possibly be "sold" to the electorate.

Quote MGarbutt1986="MGarbutt1986"The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more. Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.'" Although the original Whig party was dissolved in 1868, there is an extant successor organisation, founded in 2014, following the Camberwell Declaration. It is a registered political party, if one in no great rush. whigs.uk https://batterseatest123.files.wordpres ... ration.pdf The Conservative party is direct successor to the Tory party, and Tory is now a colloquialism, I fully except. However, would say that the Airlie Birds don’t really exist because it’s an informal usage?

Quote MGarbutt1986="MGarbutt1986"The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more. Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.'" Although the original Whig party was dissolved in 1868, there is an extant successor organisation, founded in 2014, following the Camberwell Declaration. It is a registered political party, if one in no great rush. whigs.uk https://batterseatest123.files.wordpres ... ration.pdf The Conservative party is direct successor to the Tory party, and Tory is now a colloquialism, I fully except. However, would say that the Airlie Birds don’t really exist because it’s an informal usage?

Ignoring the fact that you've put his name through a blender - Chuka Umunna had a pop at the Labour leadership, but his arris fell out when he realised just how unpopular he was; so he's now a centrist, Tory enabling, banker funded representative of an offshore company, squatting in parliament, and holding the votes of his constituents to ransom for as long as possible in the Funny Tinge party. He would never, in a million years, get anywhere near the Labour leadership - and if in some Marvel universe alternate timeline he somehow did, the membership would collapse overnight.

Get real WC - this iteration of the Labour Party is a socialist movement - and no matter the best efforts of the MSM and sentimental Blairites to foist Yvette Cooper or Jess Phillips on us, those days are not coming back.

As a paid up member, I'm more than happy with JC as leader - and I'd be very content to eventually see Rebecca Long-Bailey or Laura Pidcock pick up the mantle.

As for a new Tory leader - I see no value in any of them; Raab being the least credible by virtue of being Raab - and Gove being most likely, given that he's very much Murdoch's man.

Umunna & Raab appeal to those who don't give a stuff, or have any idea, about their policies. They look & sort of talk well, without actually ever saying anything.