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FORUMS > The Sin Bin > The General Election Thread |
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump "You believe this nonsense? How old are you?
I doubt there is anyone who doesn't think (even if it is only in the privacy of his own home) he or she bears some semblance of responsibility for some portion of the world's ills. After all - there's PLENTY of blame to go around.
But the notion that a hundred, or a thousand, or a hundred-thousand "ordinary" people are MORE CULPABLE than Kenneth Lay (ENRON), Basil Jackson (Anglo-Iranian Oil), Allen W./ John F. Dulles (United Fruit), Warren Anderson (Union Carbide), Bernie Madoff, Jordan Belfort, Allen Stanford, Ivan Boesky, Howard Hughes (Hughes Tool & Die, TWA), Fritz Thyssen, Paul Warburg, George Herbert Walker Bush, Clint Murchison, D. H. Bird, Martha Stewart, Thaksin Shinawatra, Alisher Usmanov, Roman Abramovic - and all the other Russian oligarchs, the Wall Street bankers who financed Hitler's Third Reich, the chairmen and fellow board members of all the major cigarette manufacturers who demonstrably LIED about the effects of tobacco smoke on the human respiratory system, the senior staff of ITT who played a key role in overthrowing the Allende government in Chile (plus the thousands of deaths at the hands of Pinochet, the car-bombing of Orlando Letelier), the chairmen of BP who have worked hard to install repressive dictatorships in the former Soviet southern states in exchange for oil rights (as well as the Deepwater Horizon catastrophe), the war profiteers of Halliburton, KBR, the Carlisle Group, Blackwater (now "Xe"icon_wink.gif, BAE Systems, Lockheed, Boeing, Bechtel, Aegis Defence Services, General Dynamics, Nour, Chevron, Exxon-Mobil, L-3 Communications, EADS, Raytheon, Environmental Chemical, International American Products, Custer Battles, Monsanto, Krupp, Syngenta, Grupo Mexico, Smith & Wesson, I.G. Farben etc. etc. etc. etc.?
I'm sure if you looked hard enough and far enough down the chain of causality you could find some means by which I have profited from the actions of BAE Systems or Lockheed - but this DOES NOT mean I gave my permission for the former to irradiate a patch of Iraq with depleted uranium shells or the latter to slam hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Hellfire missiles into Palestinian apartment blocks or that I am "equally guilty" or "jealous" of them.
I'm sure my grandfather at some point in his life purchased products made by one of I.G. Farben's international subsidiaries. This DOES NOT mean he gave his permission for them to develop Zyklon B for the role of exterminating the Jews or that he is "equally guilty" or "jealous" of them.
I'm sure a good proportion of the world's population have eaten Chiquita bananas, or filled their cars with BP's oil, or made phone calls through ITT's telecomms infrastructure, or purchased goods or services from ENRON - this DOES NOT mean any of them approved of overthrowing the democratically elected governments of Guatemala or Chile or Iran - or ripping off the pension funds of tens of thousands of hard-working employees or that they are "equally guilty" or "jealous" of them.
I'm certain YOU have wittingly or unwittingly eaten produce which was grown with the aid of Monsanto's fertilizers. Does this mean you are EQUALLY CULPABLE for the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of acres of not just unusable but highly toxic Vietnamese land which was sprayed with Agent Orange during the war and forty years later is still causing birth defects, stillborn babies etc. - or that you are "equally guilty" or "jealous" of them?
Explain to me - IN PLAIN ENGLISH - how you arrive at this PERVERSE idea that anyone you know is equally culpable to the above - or the myriad number of other examples I could produce from memory alone?
Or are you just going to carry on spewing out this RIDICULOUS and OFFENSIVE mantra that anyone who takes issue with the gross economic imbalances we see all around us is just "JEALOUS"?
You really believe this stuff - goodness me all of the downsides and no of the up sides!!
Are you putting the likes of Alan Stanford and Kenneth Lay in the same bracket as Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussain seriously?
Society has - sadly for you - thrown out the notion that we should be equal regardless of intellect, desire, work ethic, ability you see this is where your mantra is just hyperbole - sad very sad indeed.
You will never stop privilege you will never stop inequality. Even in a socialist regime the structure of power still exists. The bosses are still more equal than the rest. We are not all born the same - I assume you can't run like Bolt or are as intelligent as or have the business ability of Bill Gates? Of course in your world Gates is the enemy and should never have been allowed to use his talent, intellect and hard work to accumulate such a huge fortune. You need to find a way of encouraging/accommodating the benefits people like Gates bring within the confines of a workable society. You think how much tax his company has paid of the years and how that has been redistributed to those less fortunate than him. The money he has donated to challenging causes to the betterment of society. For every Abramovic there is a Bill Gates pity you are so blinkered you fail to acknowledge that the world isn't all run by greedy egomaniacs!!
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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[url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0]
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| Quote: Mugwump "Jesus H. Christ! When will people stop thinking the entirety of political thought is represented by this completely bogus "Left" - "Right", "Labour", "Tory" false dichotomy? You'd think after all we've witnessed over the past thirty years with Labour, the Tories and now the Lib-Dems not just ruthlessly carving up the welfare state, the education system, the NHS etc. but also helping to facilitate the biggest tax-haven for corporate wealth (both in the UK and spread across a network of British dominions in the Caribbean as well as the Channel Islands) in existence, the penny would finally drop.
As long as people continue to believe that the limits of their political responsibilities are represented marking an occasional "X" on some polling ballot - the winner of which represents neither "Conservatism" as it was once defined nor "Labour" but instead is really an abstract, ideologically flexible subset of a SINGLE PARTY in Parliament - their impoverishment will carry on unabated.
I mean, seriously - Cameron (I won't say the "Tories" because such policy reforms are radically un-Conservative) has now "leaked" the idea of charging for visits to the doctor's surgery. Are people so DUMB that they think such charges will remain fixed for eternity - rather than being ratcheted up along the lines of prescription charges so that in essence the NHS is no longer free?
And anyone who seriously believes New New Labour is going to come riding in on a white horse to put right everything those Nasty Tories have tampered with in four years needs his head examining.'"
Those could have been my very thoughts, regular readers may recall the phrase "football supporter politics", well its the funneling of thoughts into "left" and "right" that simply maintains the system where any party in government lines its members pockets for the future regardless of rhetoric or pretend political theories - there is no "left" or "right" in the current pair of parties who are the only ones likely to ever hold power and you have to go back forty years to understand what "left" and "right" really means.
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| Quote: Hull White Star "I don't know what your point is about crisis loans is but you know full well there is no crisis loan anymore, that safety net was actually taken away by your beloved Tories and people are having to wait weeks rather than days for the new Budgeting Loan. Whats your feeling about the proposed changes to ESA and Carers Allowance for the sick and disabled? Have we not bore the brunt of the cuts already with the changes to the ILF, ESA and PIP or is it a case of kicking a man whilst he's down?'"
My point about the crisis loans is this as you're clearly incapable of joining the dots, or unwilling.
Your bleating about the 1m+ foodbank use is, in your blinkered eyes, a catastrophe, yet you don't want to think about the almost same number in crisis under your beloved party.
No idea, about the other stuff, you're going to say it's very, very bad based on your own prejudices. You should come up with some figures, ideally from the Guardian or Morning Star to show how terrible the Tories are.
I remember Rachel Reeves saying the Labour party will be tougher on those on welfare than the Tories, so my conscience is clear, I made sure Labour didn't get in to screw the poorest in society. Did you?
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7.gif :7.gif |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Those could have been my very thoughts, regular readers may recall the phrase "football supporter politics", well its the funneling of thoughts into "left" and "right" that simply maintains the system where any party in government lines its members pockets for the future regardless of rhetoric or pretend political theories - there is no "left" or "right" in the current pair of parties who are the only ones likely to ever hold power and you have to go back forty years to understand what "left" and "right" really means.'"
It's debatable whether ideology was ever as important as we are led to believe. I tend to think people have their own needs and desires which are inflexible. Rather than conforming to the tenets of ideology they'd much rather prefer seeking out an ideology which is sync with their own requirements - or selecting those tenets of an ideology which they like whilst ignoring all others.
A prime example would be those politicians who for years have espoused the virtues of "Free Market" capitalism. What they really mean is free markets are GOOD when the economics suit them. But should some foreign competitor attempt to flood the market with cheap imports and they're screaming for the imposition of trade tariffs like a child who's filled his diapers.
This is the reason I have [isome [/isympathy for the likes of Milton Friedmann. Since I can remember he's been the object of a concerted hate campaign by the anti-globalist brigade. And they do have a point - of sorts. But if these idiots actually bothered to read or listen to Friedmann they'd know he was hopping mad about the mis-application of his economic methodology for DECADES.
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Player Coach | 2359 | ![](images/sitelogos/forumcells/0.gif) |
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19170_1432331165.jpg A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg |
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| Quote: BobbyD "My point about the crisis loans is this as you're clearly incapable of joining the dots, or unwilling.
Your bleating about the 1m+ foodbank use is, in your blinkered eyes, a catastrophe, yet you don't want to think about the almost same number in crisis under your beloved party.
No idea, about the other stuff, you're going to say it's very, very bad based on your own prejudices. You should come up with some figures, ideally from the Guardian or Morning Star to show how terrible the Tories are.
I remember Rachel Reeves saying the Labour party will be tougher on those on welfare than the Tories, so my conscience is clear, I made sure Labour didn't get in to screw the poorest in society. Did you?'"
No, not prejudices Bobby, but [iexperience [/i. No one better to be able to give an account of the truth than those who are experiencing what is happening. With what Cameron is going to do with the Disabled, I'd say they were [ialready [/i
screwing the poor in society.
My conscience is very clear because I'm not a turkey that voted for Christmas.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump "
This is the reason I have [isome [/isympathy for the likes of Milton Friedmann. Since I can remember he's been the object of a concerted hate campaign by the anti-globalist brigade. And they do have a point - of sorts. But if these idiots actually bothered to read or listen to Friedmann they'd know he was hopping mad about the mis-application of his economic methodology for DECADES.'"
I agree, and economists like Hyman Minsky, Augusto Graziani, and Steve Keen have seen these flaws, and have been the voice of reason against the Chicago (or neo-classical) school of economic theory for decades, but obviously as their attempts to educate the political and financial powers that be fell on deaf ears. Which is what you would expect when the principles of that economic theory have made those same political and financial powers that be all the more wealthy, and all the more powerful.
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Wigan |
19 |
495 |
258 |
237 |
30 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Warrington |
19 |
498 |
245 |
253 |
28 |
Hull KR |
19 |
481 |
255 |
226 |
28 |
Catalans |
19 |
366 |
274 |
92 |
24 |
Salford |
19 |
355 |
366 |
-11 |
24 |
St.Helens |
19 |
455 |
256 |
199 |
22 |
|
Leeds |
19 |
355 |
342 |
13 |
20 |
Leigh |
19 |
392 |
286 |
106 |
19 |
Huddersfield |
20 |
350 |
453 |
-103 |
14 |
Castleford |
20 |
336 |
523 |
-187 |
13 |
Hull FC |
19 |
268 |
566 |
-298 |
6 |
LondonB |
19 |
198 |
725 |
-527 |
2 |
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wakefield |
17 |
584 |
206 |
378 |
32 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Sheffield |
17 |
488 |
283 |
205 |
24 |
Toulouse |
16 |
468 |
220 |
248 |
23 |
Widnes |
17 |
410 |
307 |
103 |
21 |
Bradford |
17 |
397 |
297 |
100 |
21 |
Doncaster |
17 |
318 |
410 |
-92 |
17 |
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York |
18 |
428 |
345 |
83 |
16 |
Featherstone |
17 |
440 |
359 |
81 |
16 |
Batley |
17 |
284 |
366 |
-82 |
16 |
Swinton |
17 |
342 |
422 |
-80 |
12 |
Halifax |
17 |
318 |
459 |
-141 |
12 |
Barrow |
16 |
255 |
458 |
-203 |
12 |
Whitehaven |
17 |
336 |
556 |
-220 |
12 |
Dewsbury |
18 |
224 |
560 |
-336 |
2 |
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