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Quote: cod'ead "Not this old fanny again?

In 1997 Labour inherited debt that was far higher than we had pre-2008 financial crisis.

Similarly, this government has borrowed more in 5 years than Labour did in 13. In fact this coalition government has borrowed more than ANY previous government. And just like the previous tory administration, the money was borrowed to fund welfare and tax breaks for the rich. A price worth paying?

In 1997 Labour inherited an NHS on the brink of collapse, with patients warehoused in corridors. This bunch have gone one better, patients don't even make the corridor, they're being warehoused in ambulances in the car parks. Give them another five years and we'll all be dying at home.

It was a similar situation in education. Overcrowded classes being taught in "temporary" classrooms or decrepit buildings. A situation that the tories are taking us back to in only five years.

Looks like you've really swallowed the tory rhetoric'"


Ah, here we go, the usual tripe.

Pre 2008? You and the usual apologists trying to erase the depression that Balls, Brown and Wallace presided over, tell that to the million who lost their jobs.

Tax breaks for the rich? I'm not rich and I've never been better off.

I'd rather die at home than at Midstaffs. Still, you want to privatise the NHS, you keep forgetting about this little fact, as you whine on and on and on. Just why did you vote to sell off the NHS to Tory "chums"? Try answering without, "i'm spineless".

And yet schools are being built all over, and were in the terrible 80's, I know, I went to one of them. You should have tried it.

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Quote: Mugwump "Jesus H. Christ! When will people stop thinking the entirety of political thought is represented by this completely bogus "Left" - "Right", "Labour", "Tory" false dichotomy? You'd think after all we've witnessed over the past thirty years with Labour, the Tories and now the Lib-Dems not just ruthlessly carving up the welfare state, the education system, the NHS etc. but also helping to facilitate the biggest tax-haven for corporate wealth (both in the UK and spread across a network of British dominions in the Caribbean as well as the Channel Islands) in existence, the penny would finally drop.

As long as people continue to believe that the limits of their political responsibilities are represented marking an occasional "X" on some polling ballot - the winner of which represents neither "Conservatism" as it was once defined nor "Labour" but instead is really an abstract, ideologically flexible subset of a SINGLE PARTY in Parliament - their impoverishment will carry on unabated.

I mean, seriously - Cameron (I won't say the "Tories" because such policy reforms are radically un-Conservative) has now "leaked" the idea of charging for visits to the doctor's surgery. Are people so DUMB that they think such charges will remain fixed for eternity - rather than being ratcheted up along the lines of prescription charges so that in essence the NHS is no longer free?

And anyone who seriously believes New New Labour is going to come riding in on a white horse to put right everything those Nasty Tories have tampered with in four years needs his head examining.'"




Those could have been my very thoughts, regular readers may recall the phrase "football supporter politics", well its the funneling of thoughts into "left" and "right" that simply maintains the system where any party in government lines its members pockets for the future regardless of rhetoric or pretend political theories - there is no "left" or "right" in the current pair of parties who are the only ones likely to ever hold power and you have to go back forty years to understand what "left" and "right" really means.

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Quote: Hull White Star "I don't know what your point is about crisis loans is but you know full well there is no crisis loan anymore, that safety net was actually taken away by your beloved Tories and people are having to wait weeks rather than days for the new Budgeting Loan. Whats your feeling about the proposed changes to ESA and Carers Allowance for the sick and disabled? Have we not bore the brunt of the cuts already with the changes to the ILF, ESA and PIP or is it a case of kicking a man whilst he's down?'"

My point about the crisis loans is this as you're clearly incapable of joining the dots, or unwilling.
Your bleating about the 1m+ foodbank use is, in your blinkered eyes, a catastrophe, yet you don't want to think about the almost same number in crisis under your beloved party.
No idea, about the other stuff, you're going to say it's very, very bad based on your own prejudices. You should come up with some figures, ideally from the Guardian or Morning Star to show how terrible the Tories are.

I remember Rachel Reeves saying the Labour party will be tougher on those on welfare than the Tories, so my conscience is clear, I made sure Labour didn't get in to screw the poorest in society. Did you?

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Quote: JerryChicken "Those could have been my very thoughts, regular readers may recall the phrase "football supporter politics", well its the funneling of thoughts into "left" and "right" that simply maintains the system where any party in government lines its members pockets for the future regardless of rhetoric or pretend political theories - there is no "left" or "right" in the current pair of parties who are the only ones likely to ever hold power and you have to go back forty years to understand what "left" and "right" really means.'"


It's debatable whether ideology was ever as important as we are led to believe. I tend to think people have their own needs and desires which are inflexible. Rather than conforming to the tenets of ideology they'd much rather prefer seeking out an ideology which is sync with their own requirements - or selecting those tenets of an ideology which they like whilst ignoring all others.

A prime example would be those politicians who for years have espoused the virtues of "Free Market" capitalism. What they really mean is free markets are GOOD when the economics suit them. But should some foreign competitor attempt to flood the market with cheap imports and they're screaming for the imposition of trade tariffs like a child who's filled his diapers.

This is the reason I have [isome [/isympathy for the likes of Milton Friedmann. Since I can remember he's been the object of a concerted hate campaign by the anti-globalist brigade. And they do have a point - of sorts. But if these idiots actually bothered to read or listen to Friedmann they'd know he was hopping mad about the mis-application of his economic methodology for DECADES.

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Quote: BobbyD "My point about the crisis loans is this as you're clearly incapable of joining the dots, or unwilling.
Your bleating about the 1m+ foodbank use is, in your blinkered eyes, a catastrophe, yet you don't want to think about the almost same number in crisis under your beloved party.
No idea, about the other stuff, you're going to say it's very, very bad based on your own prejudices. You should come up with some figures, ideally from the Guardian or Morning Star to show how terrible the Tories are.

I remember Rachel Reeves saying the Labour party will be tougher on those on welfare than the Tories, so my conscience is clear, I made sure Labour didn't get in to screw the poorest in society. Did you?'"


No, not prejudices Bobby, but [iexperience [/i. No one better to be able to give an account of the truth than those who are experiencing what is happening. With what Cameron is going to do with the Disabled, I'd say they were [ialready [/i
screwing the poor in society.

My conscience is very clear because I'm not a turkey that voted for Christmas.

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Quote: Mugwump "

This is the reason I have [isome [/isympathy for the likes of Milton Friedmann. Since I can remember he's been the object of a concerted hate campaign by the anti-globalist brigade. And they do have a point - of sorts. But if these idiots actually bothered to read or listen to Friedmann they'd know he was hopping mad about the mis-application of his economic methodology for DECADES.'"


I agree, and economists like Hyman Minsky, Augusto Graziani, and Steve Keen have seen these flaws, and have been the voice of reason against the Chicago (or neo-classical) school of economic theory for decades, but obviously as their attempts to educate the political and financial powers that be fell on deaf ears. Which is what you would expect when the principles of that economic theory have made those same political and financial powers that be all the more wealthy, and all the more powerful.

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