Everyone knows that people can get a job if they really want one, the very fact that there are a quarter of a million jobs going unfilled tells you that the 2.5 million who aren't applying for them are just plain lazy and are costing us all money that could be better used in protecting our country from illegal asylum seekers coming in via the Common Market.

Quote Hull White Star="Hull White Star"Don't worry, they've already thought of that. If you are no longer "eligable" for ESA you can apply for JSA but the DWP and job centre will tell you you can't apply for JobSeekers as you are too ill to work and can't sign to say you are actively seeking work and are capable of 40 hours a week. So you are left with nothing, hanging in limbo not even a benefit statistic. I don't care what the likes of IDS and Ajw say, this is really happening, to real people. www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... -help-me!!!'" There you are then - the perfect storm. This actually happened once before in history you know, a time when a class of people were defined as being undesirable and not required in a society where only perfect striving people need apply, the population as a whole acquiesced and so the government rounded them all up and ... well we know what happened next.

Quote Hull White Star="Hull White Star"Don't worry, they've already thought of that. If you are no longer "eligable" for ESA you can apply for JSA but the DWP and job centre will tell you you can't apply for JobSeekers as you are too ill to work and can't sign to say you are actively seeking work and are capable of 40 hours a week. So you are left with nothing, hanging in limbo not even a benefit statistic. I don't care what the likes of IDS and Ajw say, this is really happening, to real people. www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... -help-me!!!'" There you are then - the perfect storm. This actually happened once before in history you know, a time when a class of people were defined as being undesirable and not required in a society where only perfect striving people need apply, the population as a whole acquiesced and so the government rounded them all up and ... well we know what happened next.

Everyone should be a favour of welfare reform - the system should provide the best available option for the monies available. Welfare reform should be ongoing activity so as to reflect the needs of those benefitting from the system.

I think the question has to be "are you in favour of [ifair[/i welfare reform."? Because we all know at the moment it isn't. In 2013 food banks shouldn't exist (of be few and far between), disabled people should get all the help they need without having to jump through hoops and have their Doctors/Consultants listened to instead of a tick box excersise, under 25's should be able to live independently and claim housing benefit if they need it (yes in 2013 under 25's [ido[/i get ill and [iare [/imade redundant), the recently unemployed shouldn't have to wait a week without any money. (I know their mortgage company, supermarket or utility company wouldn't!) I could go on and on.

And as for the bit in bold, the system should provide the best option for all those who need it without putting unfair sanctions on people, for example how is it fair that a 24 year old who lives independently becomes redundant and won't get any housing benefit and has to be "supported" by parents (thats if they have any, some people have no one), yet the just turned 26 year old in the same block of flats who worked at the same place and was made redundant the same time gets to keep their flat because they can claim housing benefit. Again I could go on and on.

I think I'm one of those who would be much better off on JSA benefits than in work. I'm currently in PT employment, 24-hours per week on minimum wage but my employer requires me to have a car insured for business purposes.

I'm reasonably young (mid-20s) with zero no claims so the cost of insurance is short of £1,000. Then there's tax and MOT to think of, plus petrol which I don't get paid for commuting, but I may be required to travel for work purposes on short notice.

When everything adds up including rent and living, I'm just breaking even and cannot afford to pay for my insurance when the renewal comes (even with a standing order for an affordable amount of money into a savings account to pay for it), hence I'm fearing for my job when I tell my employer I no longer have a car.

Annoyingly I don't think I qualify for income support as I work too much!

The 5 Giants of the Welfare State:

Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness

How are these being met in modern society?

Do you not recieve a car allowance from your employer?

Quote Peckerwood="Peckerwood"I think I'm one of those who would be much better off on JSA benefits than in work. I'm currently in PT employment, 24-hours per week on minimum wage but my employer requires me to have a car insured for business purposes. I'm reasonably young (mid-20s) with zero no claims so the cost of insurance is short of £1,000. Then there's tax and MOT to think of, plus petrol which I don't get paid for commuting, but I may be required to travel for work purposes on short notice. When everything adds up including rent and living, I'm just breaking even and cannot afford to pay for my insurance when the renewal comes (even with a standing order for an affordable amount of money into a savings account to pay for it), hence I'm fearing for my job when I tell my employer I no longer have a car. Annoyingly I don't think I qualify for income support as I work too much!'" Do you qualify for Working Tax Credits? Calculator here: https://www.gov.uk/tax-credits-calculator (You may need to work another 6 hours somewhere I suspect) Some of that stuff you pay may be tax deductible, may be worth having an hour with an accountant.

Quote Peckerwood="Peckerwood"I think I'm one of those who would be much better off on JSA benefits than in work. I'm currently in PT employment, 24-hours per week on minimum wage but my employer requires me to have a car insured for business purposes. I'm reasonably young (mid-20s) with zero no claims so the cost of insurance is short of £1,000. Then there's tax and MOT to think of, plus petrol which I don't get paid for commuting, but I may be required to travel for work purposes on short notice. When everything adds up including rent and living, I'm just breaking even and cannot afford to pay for my insurance when the renewal comes (even with a standing order for an affordable amount of money into a savings account to pay for it), hence I'm fearing for my job when I tell my employer I no longer have a car. Annoyingly I don't think I qualify for income support as I work too much!'" Do you qualify for Working Tax Credits? Calculator here: https://www.gov.uk/tax-credits-calculator (You may need to work another 6 hours somewhere I suspect) Some of that stuff you pay may be tax deductible, may be worth having an hour with an accountant.

Let's get this straight: we are talking Social Security not welfare. There really are few if any who "benefit" from the system. How beneficial do you think it is to be constantly belittled as a "shirker or scrounger"?

Quote Ferocious Aardvark="Ferocious Aardvark"Do you qualify for Working Tax Credits? Calculator here: https://www.gov.uk/tax-credits-calculator (You may need to work another 6 hours somewhere I suspect) Some of that stuff you pay may be tax deductible, may be worth having an hour with an accountant.'" Tax Credits!! Another cost to the taxpayer! Employers should be made to pay a living wage just as no child benefit should be paid for more than one child - even that is debatable!

Quote Ferocious Aardvark="Ferocious Aardvark"Do you qualify for Working Tax Credits? Calculator here: https://www.gov.uk/tax-credits-calculator (You may need to work another 6 hours somewhere I suspect) Some of that stuff you pay may be tax deductible, may be worth having an hour with an accountant.'" Tax Credits!! Another cost to the taxpayer! Employers should be made to pay a living wage just as no child benefit should be paid for more than one child - even that is debatable!

A really, really valid point.

However, the cost of housing - whether rented or bought - is a really massive problem and one hat makes many working people need housing benefit. So it may not even be as simple as the employer not paying an adequate wage. We desperately need to tackle the housing crisis (I use that word deliberately) an then other things possibly become clearer and maybe even easier.