I am of the opinion that nobody posting on this thread is likely to shift from their rather entrenched opinions on the matter so will leave it and agree to disagree.

Me included I suppose. I am firmly in the camp of messrs Strummer, Jones, Simonon and Headon on the matter. "Know your rights, all three of 'em"

Regarding the riots, have you ever thought that events can run unconnected in parallel?
Or that there can be strands in events, like rope laid out in series on the ground in a time line, but they may not all be connected up. Pull one end and you see that it doesn't affect the extreme other end.
That's how things can happen, yet appear to have some loose connection.
People in London to a large degree and certainly people in other cities didn't come into the fray because of Duggan, they looked via the media and saw unchecked rioting and thought chavishly, we'll have some of that. So for them alone that was the cause.

Right. The thread has been cleaned.

Continue the discussion by all means – but if it goes off topic in the same manner again, then I will hand out bans.

I'll add ...

I locked this thread overnight a few days ago because of bickering but was persuaded to re-open. I asked for it to be kept civil at that point. I have read the posts which have been removed and have to say as well as being disappointed by them, had I have been around last night or first thing this morning the thread would have been locked.

Final warning on this topic ... Keep it civil or the thread goes.

I'm tempted to suggest that you need to grow up and get some.

But okay – I'm going to be more subtle, even in closing this thread.

Strange as it may seem, we – that's the mods – do not conspire against anyone else. We do not sit down and discuss who we 'like' and who we do not 'like'. We do not discuss what threads we 'like' and do not.

I am getting pretty ed off with the paranoid brigade, who appear to believe in conspiracy theories, regardless of the facts.

Now – that's a personal thing. So deal with it or not.

But hey - feel proud: you've finished off this thread.