The links you provide kind of back up my claims that under the current debt based money system somebody somewhere always has to be going into further debt to keep the whole system functioning. If new money has to be continually spent into the economy why doesn't a government just create this new money themselves instead of borrowing debt based credit money from banks at interest when the same banks create this credit out if thin air?

In answer to my original question I personally think it will be chaos when the debt bubble finally collapses just like Brown envisioned if the quotes ascribed to him are true.

And the difference between the influence his type have on Tory policy and the influence the unions have on Labour policy is what? It is just you find the policies of the right less palatable - the scope of influence is no different, they pay their monies and they expect something in return.

Rather large.

Just to begin with, the Labour Party was created by the trades unions. It's a little bit of history that seems to be forgotten on occasions, including by some in the (particularly) Parliamentary Labour Party.

I am not aware of the Conservative Party having been founded by loans sharks or, indeed, by multi-national and trans-national business (which are new developments).

Further: trades unions are democratic organisations that have accountable leaderships. For instance, trade union members can elect – and unelect – the leaders of trade unions. In many cases (UNISON is a prime example) members have to opt [iin[/i to any trade union donation. It is not automatic.

I suggest that few consumers have much choice in whether, say, a percentage of their buy in a supermarket then goes to any political party.

So, democracy, accountability – those little matters are quite different.

Oooh ... let me try this one ... is it that the former want to sack people without giving a reason and the latter say you should have a bloody good reason?

If it was that simple, surely he wouldn't have missed it though

Quote LeighGionaire="LeighGionaire"Remember when Lehman Brothers Bank collapsed? Gordon Brown bailed out the banks because this is what he was scared of - "If the banks are shutting their doors, and the cash points aren't working, and people go to Tesco and their cards aren't being accepted, the whole thing will just explode. "If you can't buy food or petrol or medicine for your kids, people will just start breaking the windows and helping themselves. "And as soon as people see that on TV, that's the end, because everyone will think that's OK now, that's just what we all have to do. It'll be anarchy. That's what could happen tomorrow." www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 31362.html However it was only a stop gap because now we are seeing a Sovereign Debt crisis. All these Austerity measures are hurting the average man financially but we aren't even halting the deficit, never mind actually paying off any Government debt! So if governments were the last resort to save the system what will happen when they eventually go bust and this whole global ponzi scheme collapses?'" Here is a good site if you are worried. www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/catego ... nformation

Quote LeighGionaire="LeighGionaire"Remember when Lehman Brothers Bank collapsed? Gordon Brown bailed out the banks because this is what he was scared of - "If the banks are shutting their doors, and the cash points aren't working, and people go to Tesco and their cards aren't being accepted, the whole thing will just explode. "If you can't buy food or petrol or medicine for your kids, people will just start breaking the windows and helping themselves. "And as soon as people see that on TV, that's the end, because everyone will think that's OK now, that's just what we all have to do. It'll be anarchy. That's what could happen tomorrow." www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 31362.html However it was only a stop gap because now we are seeing a Sovereign Debt crisis. All these Austerity measures are hurting the average man financially but we aren't even halting the deficit, never mind actually paying off any Government debt! So if governments were the last resort to save the system what will happen when they eventually go bust and this whole global ponzi scheme collapses?'" Here is a good site if you are worried. www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/catego ... nformation

It does. What do you think quantitative easing is all about? The new money created that is used in quantitative easing is used to buy government bonds off banks who currently hold them. The price of the bonds goes up because of the increased demand and so the profit made by the banks on the sale of the bonds is new money they can lend.

Normally printing money is inflationary but it rarely is in a recession as explained by the second of the two links I posted.

Quote DaveO="DaveO"Normally printing money is inflationary but it rarely is in a recession as explained by the second of the two links I posted.'" But there is plenty of inflation at the moment, the prime example being house prices. Food also has gone up steadily in price over the last few years. Governments's routinely manipulate the data to exclude things like housing in their inflation figures. From January 2000 up until May 2010 the M4 money supply increased from 802 Billion to 2200 Billion, all that extra money created and I hardly saw a penny of it hit my wallet - so much for the 'trickle down' effect! www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps/ ... C&Filter=N

Quote DaveO="DaveO"Normally printing money is inflationary but it rarely is in a recession as explained by the second of the two links I posted.'" But there is plenty of inflation at the moment, the prime example being house prices. Food also has gone up steadily in price over the last few years. Governments's routinely manipulate the data to exclude things like housing in their inflation figures. From January 2000 up until May 2010 the M4 money supply increased from 802 Billion to 2200 Billion, all that extra money created and I hardly saw a penny of it hit my wallet - so much for the 'trickle down' effect! www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps/ ... C&Filter=N